Link to original: http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/vvc.html
Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) Global Vampire Community Discussion (Public) – July 10, 2009
- Phoenix Nefarious
- Acrophobic Pixie*
- Amber Psionic
- John Reason (Nny)
- Sami COD5
- Aset Isis333
- Lady Cathleen
- Lady Margravine
- Sylvere ap Leanan*
- Lady Renee
- The Energy Taker
- Tobias Apollyon
- Madame X
- Master Sami
- Dischordian Joy
- Mike Future*
- Wynter Phoenix
- Xylia Tzigane
I. Discussion Information
Welcome to the first Global Vampire Community Discussion hosted by Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC). The transcript from tonight’s meeting is being logged and will be made publicly available. Unlike the transcripts of our Public Agenda VVC Meetings, these Global Vampire Community Discussions are generally not edited for grammatical errors or the discussion restructured to align in sequence for question and answer responses.
Topics will be presented in the order they appear on the agenda. Please do not skip ahead and please do not suggest discussion of items not on the agenda until at the end of each major discussion topic.
Feel free to speak your mind on any and all topics in a civil manner and offer any supporting information, links, or material as needed.
II. Background & Introduction
VVC was founded January 2006.
The purpose of the Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) is to develop friendly relations among the various Houses, Covens, Orders, organizations, and individual leaders of the vampire community; to encourage cooperation in solving community related problems and in promoting respect for the views, ideas, and opinions of others without seeking to establish a unifying or governing body; and to be a center for harmonizing the actions of groups in attaining these ends. – August 8, 2006
Voices Of The Vampire Community (VVC) does not assert itself as the exclusive organization of leaders or notable persons in the vampi(y)re community nor do we view ourselves or our actions as legislative or authoritarian. The members of the VVC are representative of multiple groups, Houses, Orders, paths, beliefs, and segments of the vampi(y)re community who meet and are able to put aside personal differences to work together to discuss, suggest, implement, and support projects, ideas, and other intellectual works that help to improve the overall community.
For more information please visit our web site at: http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/vvc.html
We are available to answer questions through the community feedback form available at the site above.
a. Examining The Vampire Community: What aspect(s) of the vampire community are most important and needed?
b. Open Vampire Community Discussion: Any topic you’d like to bring up for discussion is welcome.
DiscussionVVC: Voices of the Vampire Community
VVC: Global Vampire Community Discussion - July 10, 2009
VVC: Pre-Discussion Conversation Highlights
AncientKhan: I do hate to sound like an old crotchety mf'er, but since I see so many unrecognized names, any care to do intros?
Reija: AncientKhan - i'm Gabriel's wife
AcrophobicPixie: Umm..like, Hi.. I'm Pixie :P
Camazotz: is this where we do a/s/l? :p
John_Reason: I am John, sang vamp from Texas. Babysitter, Jack of no Trades.. Bad computer geek. lol
cynsanity: Oh dear, I suck at this.
* Reija has actually been in and around the vampire community since 1994
Camazotz: Cama... 29, Ireland/US hybrid vamp and otherkin
Isealdor: let's see...is "older than dirt/not with anyone here/I travel a lot" valid?
AncientKhan: For anyone not knowing me, I'm Khan.
Malcaius: i am Malcaius Davion, pain in the arse for all members of the VC since 1999
Isealdor: more serious note, I'm Isealdor, aka Is or Ise, Admin of vampires.nu, run #vampirerealm, help a number of other places around the community, and currently live mostly in MO
Gabrielx: <-- Gabe, Founder and insane person of House Lost Haven, and oddities
cynsanity: What about we do this intro-thing alphabetically?
AcrophobicPixie: but then, I'm prolly like, the only non vamp in the room
John_Reason: Acro, I just want to thank you for being a really good donor though. I think you contribute quite a lot to the community.
melkia: does anyone know of a minnsota house with a physical place ?
Reija: Minnesota? not sure, but i'd look in the MSP area, that'd be your best bet :P
Gabrielx: I'd start with meetup groups
Isealdor: melkia, not off the top of my head
melkia: ok then I’ll guess I’ll start one
Reija: and most Houses aren't a physical place... if anything, you're looking at someone's home, as in, place of residence, as being the physical part of a house
Gabrielx: melkia: They have a vampire meetup group, you can sign up on that and go to meetups (if their active) usually you'll find someone associated with a house or group..if not you can still learn and speak with others
melkia: ahh ok
Isealdor: If you're wanting to start something offline there, melkia, I'd strongly recommend something like meetup.com to see what sort of interest there is for a group
DischordianJoy: My local vamp meetup group hasn't been active forever, and I really can't afford to pay to be a facilitator.
* NyteMuse agrees w/ Is
melkia: I’ll have to try that
NyteMuse: Some cities just aren't made for organized groups
NyteMuse: Or at least aren't conducive towards
Isealdor: you can usually find discount coupons online for meetup.com, too, to make it cheaper to get it started
Isealdor: like 6 months for the cost of 1 month, etc
DischordianJoy: I live in Rochester, NY. I would have thought there'd be more people around.
Gabrielx: All depends on how and where you look
SphynxCatVP: DischordianJoy, there used to be a group for your area, one of the folks I chat with on VF ran it for a while
NyteMuse: Yeah...dunno about Rochester. I know a group in Albany, though
melkia: i would think NY would have a crap load of vamps in it
DischordianJoy: Albany's a bit far for me.
Reija: NYC does
Reija: the rest of the state?not as much
DischordianJoy: Heh, I'm sure there are plenty in NYC, but I'm 9 hours away from there
Camazotz: It has a large 'community' melkia... vamps not as many
NyteMuse: There's a big diff between "lot of vamps" and organized groups
* AcrophobicPixie looks at her self... I'm not all curliecuey...
Reija: DischordianJoy - have you considered looking at Ontario groups?
melkia: so lifestylers ?
* Isealdor agrees with Nyte* most organized groups arent overly large
DischordianJoy: That's a bit far for me too, but no I hadn't
Isealdor: at least offline
Reija: there used to be a good-sized community in Ontario
Lono676767: good sized community in Tampa
DischordianJoy: Hmm, interesting Reija.
NyteMuse: Not just that, Is. Having a large # of vamps in an area doesn't automatically mean there will be a group
Camazotz: How did you enjoy going out to meet the Tampa, FL lot Lono?
Isealdor: agreed to that, too, Nyte
Isealdor: especially if one's in an area where the majority dont like structured groups
NyteMuse: There are a fair # of vamps in NorCal, but the candor/tone of the area seems to almost actively discriminate against group formation
Lono676767: I really enjoyed myself...i was abit apprehensive at first...its been awhile since ive been out and about, but i dug the relaxed and less formal setting
DischordianJoy: I've never really wanted an organized group... just some folks I can chat with, you know?
Reija: well, that, and HLH is already in norcal :P
Lono676767: had a great discussion with Evanchristopher, father Eros, and Asar.
Isealdor: at this point, might as well say that HLH is just everywhere, Reija :P
NyteMuse: And a fair amount of the Bay Area doesn't want to drive to Sac, Reija
Gabrielx: nyte: True, There are a lot here that wish to stay off radar though.. As well group formations are interesting to say the least out here.
Gabrielx: NV area and nor cal seems to group well
Lono676767: i agree with gabe...after i was prett much booted from my first massage school because people found out about my site....so im keeping a low profile until after i graduate and get my LMT license.
Reija: yeah reno's not too far away for stuffs :)
SphynxCatVP: ya, there's a reason I advocate privacy, lol
Malcaius: 15 mins until we have to behave... supposedly
Lono676767: the bastards found my pick on myspace, which is why i dont have it up anymore.
* Isealdor nods* Good part of why I'm big about the community vs private life info thing
TUSK: @ Melkia: on a quick look of Twin cities. Just saw Wiccan and energy healers related meetup groups
diss: a_b, so it seems. while Geneva, Switzerland appears to be devoid of vamps. <a_b>diss, like Stuttgart *g*
cynsanity: a_b, diss... or like Vienna
cynsanity: We apparently only have TOV types here (Austria)
cynsanity: Temple of the Vampire
Isealdor: TOV = Temple of the Vampire
diss: Temple of the Vampire
DischordianJoy: Oh, lol, I have no association with that organization.
Reija: heh... not to be confused with the TOS OV...
Reija: those guys used to be really big when i first got into the community
DischordianJoy: I don't really remember how I got intro'd to the community... <a_b>cyn, there are meetups around there... i'm not sure whether they are in vienna, but some people from the comventum are meeting pretty often in austria or sometimes bavaria
AcrophobicPixie: my big brother dragged me kicking and screaming into the community..
AcrophobicPixie: then I became more popular than him :P
* Reija has been involved in the community since 1994? yeah, 94... on the PODSnet message boards on oooooold dial-up BBSes
AcrophobicPixie: though, he dragged me in cause he didn't know any other fae, and I was in the final stages of my own awakening
DischordianJoy: Oh, I also know Zilchy, sort of... Though he gets talked to by so many people, I dunno if he'll remember me.
SphynxCatVP: I had some peripheral involvement on BBS's, but they were all smallfry board
* Isealdor got involved with the community at large thanks to the Realm
SphynxCatVP: boards <a_b>cyn, i've never heard of Austrian TOV people
cynsanity: a_b, could you maybe let me know more about those meetups? I can give you my mail addy <a_b>sure cyn =)
SphynxCatVP: then we got broadband, and I found vyrdolak's and sangi's site, hit IRC, and became part of hte dirt on the floor :)
Reija: hahaha, sphynxie, i think i've known you since 96 or 97 at least O.o
Lono676767: i found sangi's site first then the osyvamp info exchange the same year i think it was late 98 or so
diss: my first contact with real vampires was through a doc, some years ago.
Reija: i met sangi in 96, and she ALWAYS forgets who i am
diss: SpynxCatVP, i honestly can't remember much. i think it was an English production, feature-length doc, they were in NY and SF scenes, also somewhere in mid-west suburbia...
SphynxCatVP: Ahhh, doc for documentary, ok
SphynxCatVP: thought you meant medical doc :)
Isealdor: Alright... shall we get this started?
VVC: III. Discussion
VVC: a. Examining The Vampire Community: What aspect(s) of the vampire community are most important and needed?
VVC: Just as a reminder, conversation is to be kept civil, statements or claims backed by example where necessary, and in cases of insuperable disagreements; a concession between parties to respectfully agree to disagree.
Isealdor: Thank you all for coming. Initial topic is "What aspect(s) of the vampire community are most important and needed?".
SphynxCatVP: No political bullshit :)
DischordianJoy: I second sangi, and unfortunately I must run. :( Have fun everyone.
Sovereignx: second that sphynx
xeurika: to be uncharacteristically on topic: better, more easily accessible information
Rath: I would think the common myth and Hollywood image of vampirism, and how it affects people those within the community, along with how its hard to keep a level head while trying to keep down the image we are viewed as
Sanguinarius: got all these little groups here and there...need to be in communication with each other
Isealdor: Ok...what sort of education, Mal? And done how?
AcrophobicPixie: communication between all the different parties
Luxuria: It seems there are a lot of important aspects.
Sanguinarius: what AcrophobicPixie said
Luxuria: Just, pointing out the obvious <Ren`> I like Rath's idea
Camazotz: Stopping enabling by being too busy with open arms to check who actually is *part* of the community
Zero: well, I like the research, of course. I suppose that intersects with the education aspect, as there's more to educate about the more data we have
jbshadowrose: The comparison of fact vs. myth, and open interpretation to different signs of personal "vampirism" within members of the community
Lono676767: khan, on your topic, accountability...how so?
jbshadowrose: Just my thought... lol
cynsanity: Making a distinction between fantasy and reality.In a written document.
Rath: The community has always been open, but at some point some lines need to be drawn
AncientKhan: So many have decided to become part of this, and yet we lack a system of checks and balances, Lono
cynsanity: A very thorough distinction, with science and other evils thrown in.
AcrophobicPixie: khan, I'm assuming you mean all parties actually acting like adults, and taking responsibility for their part of whatever vampire relationship they're in?
Zero: in the past, the vamp community has been so open and undiscriminating almost as a matter of ideology
Camazotz: I would assume more than just that Pix
Isealdor: What sort of checks and balances would you like to see, Khan, and put in place how?
Sanguinarius: we need a way to keep misinformation from being disseminated, esp. when it rank above valid info in the search engines
AncientKhan: Something along those lines. Too many new all-knowing groups and popularity contests...
Luxuria: How about determining the line between fantasy and reality. It's rather shady in some places.
Malcaius: i second khan but also add that this has to be on both a personal and social level, there is to much infighting and name calling amongst our own <Ren`> Too many groups falling through the cracks with more legitimacy then they probably deserve
Isealdor: My take on the misinformation vs good information is that trying to get rid of the misinformation is a losing battle--better to try to promote good information
jbshadowrose: I agree, Malcaius
Rath: zero I've seen that, but we need away to keep misinformation and a proper format to what is real and fake. They're needs to be levels on how far we take something
xeurika: I agree with accountability, but the issue is complicated by accountable to who, who is judge, jury, and what sanctions can be meted out
Camazotz: Half the battle with misinformation is having people who *aren't* kin trying to say they know it all because they've read X article, or met Y person
jbshadowrose: There's also the matter of comparing the myth to fact in a way that explains *how* that myth came along, as there are myths that do in fact mirror the facts.
AncientKhan: Should we use something called common sense or a touch of realism as a judge?
Zero: @Rath - I fully agree. I'm hoping that the education aspect will actually help cut back on some of the fruitbat crap
Luxuria: There is no exact science to who *you* are. Therefore, no distinct line. Determining fact is still in the process of evaluating and coming to a conclusion.
melkia: i think that we need to show how were are and not how were suppose to be
Isealdor: I see the accountability thing being similar to the misinformation problem- -there isn’t and wont ever really be a governing body for the whole community, and without having much by way of "facts" about vampirism to use, there's not particularly a good way to deal with that sort of thing
xeurika: for education, I'm still exploring the peer review concept, and trying to come up with milestones and technical issues with implementation
Rath: But that also brings to question what vampirism is, and to go with cyn's idea. we need through introduction on what vampirism is and etc. <Ren`> Isealdor: But you have to think how far behind the learning curve real vampirism is. I mean science is afraid of venturing into these topics. Besides I would rather have scientist researching bio-fuels then how my brain as a vampire works
Camazotz: True Is... but let's be frank, you know who's real and who isn't
Isealdor: Peer review for what sort of things, xeurika?
xeurika: basically similar to academic process
Isealdor: perhaps, Cama...but does people going around saying "you are, you aren’t, you aren’t, you are" really do anyone any good?
Malcaius: yes but we dont need x vampire saying y vampire is just stupid or uneveloved this cause a break down of the communal nature that is all we have
Isealdor: for what, though, xeurika...websites, articles, what?
cynsanity: Science isn't afraid of these concepts - science doesn't want to spend funds on lunatics.
* NyteMuse agrees with Isealdor
jbshadowrose: It's even especially more difficult to lay out the facts on determining someone's "genuineness" (I know, not a word), via the internet.
Luxuria: Personally, I've come across many people who hold different views on vampirism. Who is to say that one list of Facts is not going to be challenge?
Camazotz: There's more than one way to skin a cat Is
SphynxCatVP: sometimes people need that kick in the ass
Zero: @xeurika -- peer review for community-published articles? That's a promising thought.
AcrophobicPixie: if I listened to all the "You are this, not that" I'd be swearing up and down that I'm a psi vamp of a weird form
Sanguinarius: peer review would be good
NyteMuse: After all, who "owns" the rights for the definition of the term "vampire"?
Rath: well again, Vampirism is broad spectrum of theory's ideas and thoughts <Ren`> NyteMuse: Hollywood
Isealdor: I’d /love/ to see a true peer review system made for articles, and the reviewed articles to then be heavily promoted
Rath: so the question remains what is vampirism, and what is fluff
Sanguinarius: I would submit mine for review
xeurika: ideally, for articles where a central site where a review board can evalutate information
Lono676767: who owns the rights to psivamp or psyvamp?
Sanguinarius: the ones on my site
melkia: has there been a full documentary on the day to day life of several diffrent vamps ?
AncientKhan: I'd love to see vampyrism not be a club for acceptance for those who are not accepted..
cynsanity: Why can't we agree that vampirism as we define it commonly ("Need") can have different faces, different causes etc.? Before we can call someone fluff, we need to have some sort of estimation handy, VEWRS anyone?... (Vampirism & Energy Work Research Study -http://www.suscitatio.com)
Rath: Khan I am with you
AcrophobicPixie: Melkia, there's been a few different docs
SphynxCatVP: melkia, um.....sorta? Not to the extent you're asking about, I think, a lot of older documentaries went for the shock factor
Zero: We're going to run into very difficult problems if we're trying to draw out definitions of vampirism. I believe that there are intellectually rigorous and legit ways of discussing vampirism without resorting to essentialist definitions
xeurika: here are the major obstacles to peer review system that I’ve come up with <Ren`> The community at large. Like Microsoft or Linux. the terms psivamp is largely owned by the community at large. (Linux) where vampire is owned by the larger mainstream group and hollywood (Microsoft)
Isealdor: cyn: that's true, until you get into things like ceremonial vampirism, and those who consider themselves vampires but not based on need
Malcaius: i expect anything i write to be reviewed by my peers and then tarnished or embraced as it justly deserves if you think its crap let it fade into dust, but who do you get to review everything
jbshadowrose: I think we're just better off listing what Vampirism *isn’t*, for the most part.
Isealdor: ceremonial magick vampirism
SphynxCatVP: hell, if I see something good I try to snag a copy for my site :P :)
Rath: But No offense on Michelle, But I would rather people who are no wearing leather and dressed in all black to be made into documentaries
Zero: @Cyn - the Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA] - http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com- REALLY doesn't want the Vampirism & Energy Work Research Study (VEWRS) to be used to craft a "definition" of vampirism -- that's not what the study was crafted for, and it won't legitimately be able to do that with the data gathered
Lono676767: hey I’m up for any advice on the articles on my site. (http://www.psychicvampire.org)
Luxuria: There are a lot of things Vampirism *isn't*
cynsanity: Isealdor: Now you got me back at the point. Ceremonial magick vampirism might exist, but it's not the vampirism we should be concerned for.
melkia: the reason why i am asking is maybe if we show people we aren’t all fangy and freeky people will be more likely to open up to us as a whole
* Camazotz gets deja vu
NyteMuse: Or what about those who go through periods of need-based vampirism without any identifiable universal cause? Hell, look at the numbers on forum users.
* jbshadowrose agrees with cyn
AcrophobicPixie: Rath - If she ever stops to visit, I'm dragging Michelle shopping. She has been warned
SphynxCatVP: melkia, Zilchy is wearing a suit in most of his YouTube videos... :)
cynsanity: Any magickian worth his salt resorting to vampirism should know how to work and doesn't need our help
Zero: I think the fang and leather step is a necessary intermediate stage for vamp community publicity.
SphynxCatVP: granted it's black and red, but it's still a suit :)
xeurika: ideally the article would be submitted to a review board where the reviewers do not know the author's identity, which is a technical issue, ideally a feedback ala Amazon system goes along with it, a technical problem, who is on the review board is also a practical and potential political issue as well
melkia: i know
Isealdor: I can agree with that, cynsanity...I see that as being one of the main challenges in the community--that all views and definitions and lifestyles, etc, are lumped into one
Camazotz: Nyte, half of those people would realize they're not kin and wander off if we didn't embrace them, tell them they're welcome and loved, etc
AcrophobicPixie: Zilchy happens to look very handsome in his videos, imo
Sanguinarius: yes he does
Lono676767: cyn EXACTLY!!!!
melkia: i guess i am not making a good point nevermind carry on :)
NyteMuse: Cama, and some of them really did have some vampirism going on, and then it went away. WWP had some interesting theories on energy usage during puberty/early adulthood that seemed to make sense.
diss: cyn has a point, there are many different definitions of "vampire" possible, what we'd need is to find a definition useful to the community
cynsanity: Lono... what did I say that made you go like that?
AcrophobicPixie: Diss, there never will be one
AcrophobicPixie: there are FAAAAAAAAR too many different "breeds" of vampirism
diss: or a collection of definitions
AcrophobicPixie: you can't have one catch all definition
Zero: Again, I argue against drawing definitions out at this stage in the community's self-development.
NyteMuse: Since Michelle Belanger is not here to comment on this herself, re: the dress in documentaries, some of that is not her idea. The media has a certain idea how vamps should look. If the "vamps" they find don't meet that, they don't get called back.
Zero: Actually, most of that isn't her idea
diss: pixie, agreed <Ren`> \\The question is who would then claim that definition. We'd see it get swallowed by the mainstream and before we know it, it's someone else’s entirely \\
AcrophobicPixie: yeah, but with a collection there will be several contradictions
Zero: they won't interview you unless you "look like a vampire."
Rath: Zilchy is very good in video's, But again a focus on what vampirism is. I mean I have people coming into my house and IRC room telling me they're eyes turn red and they don't have a reflection and I want to smack them
Lono676767: cyn you said any magus worth his salt can do it themselves.
cynsanity: I mean, no one here would probably say that Lono is not a vamp. I hope no one here would say I'm not a vamp. But I bet everything I have in books that we're not the same... or even similar.
Malcaius: if they don’t want reality do we really want to be called back?
Camazotz: but there's a base similarity
Isealdor: which is unfortunately, but thankfully at least somewhat changing, as was seen with Anshar's interviews, where he just went to them in a suit and tie
NyteMuse: Some might argue about "selling out", but honestly, I'd really rather see her in corporate Goth wear talking sanely than her sticking to her principles, turning them down, and having the media end up with Vampira.
Sanguinarius: we need vampires making vampire documentaries
Zero: as better info gets out there, that stereotype will change, and we'll end up dimming it until it goes out completely
Rath: anshar's interviews where amazing
Sanguinarius: then the vamps can dress how we want
Gabby: Not true about having to look like a vamp, when Mairi and I were interviewed she looked like a soccer mom.
Camazotz: You and Lono still *feel* the same Cyn
Zero: @ NyteMuse -- agreed
Phoenix_Nefarious: I have found that Michelle has opened my eyes to a lot of who I am and I’m very greatful for her writings.
cynsanity: Ah, that. Thanks, Lono. But it's true, isn't it?
Gabby: I looked like the Goth vamp
MadameX: maybe you can focus on the 'methods' of vampyrism instead of trying to put individuals into niches...
AcrophobicPixie: yeah, but if you go by strict technicality, on how my energy system operates, you'd think I was a vamp
cynsanity: What do you mean, we feel the same, Cama?
Rath: sangi I'm up to go with that,
AcrophobicPixie: but I'm obviously not
NyteMuse: @Gabby, it depends on the company doing the pitch
Camazotz: In terms of kin vs non kin Cyn
AncientKhan: Is this about the media again?
xeurika: i agree Sangi it would be great if we could go as far as using PR tactics as well
Isealdor: technically, no, Khan
AcrophobicPixie: no, Khan
SphynxCatVP: it's all about the media....the media sucks you in....
Isealdor: back to xeurika's thing about peer reviews...I like that idea, a lot
AncientKhan: Not I. The media has nothing I want...
NyteMuse: Denise from ABC was a little disappointed to see so few people @ the Kheprian Gathering in high Goth
cynsanity: Cama, but do we really feel the *same*?
Zero: If we're looking at peer reviews, are we talking about one or more community journal publications?
jbshadowrose: Aye, even modern-day vampirism is being sought out by the younger generations as it comes into better light, and because of this modern [fictional] vampire-craze going on now a days.
jbshadowrose: Bad mix O_o
Isealdor: I also see things like the book (Vampires Today: The Truth About Modern Vampirism by Joseph Laycock -http://www.amazon.com/Vampires- Today-Truth-Modern-Vampirism/dp/0313364729/ref=sr_1_1) being something that the community sorely needs--outside perspective
Gabby: Yes Nymuse, it does depend...National Geographic was more educated, even though they butchered the whole reel of filmed coverage.
xeurika: thanks Isealdor, I've looked into some possible technical solutions, you can get wiki software, the hosting is a bit more challenging with that
Camazotz: You have variations as you are different people, operate differently Cyn.. but to me there's a distinct 'flavour' that separates those who are and those who aren't, even those who are learned
Phoenix_Nefarious: As for the media. I’ve found that they are moving into an acceptance of our kin and other kin
Isealdor: and not in the whole media sense
Lono676767: i know quite a few corporate vamps, and ones that use their natural abilities to succeed in the business world and every day life...as Gabriel puts it, we all need to work, unless we want to end up like homeless tom
Luxuria: I would see trying to define Vampirism as trying to convince someone that what they hold in front of them is the image of a true apparition. There are always going to be those who disagree, find fault, deny and evaluate it to be false.
diss: peer review.. ..i think a first implementation of peer review could be made by having open comments on articles. very much the blog system.
cynsanity: I was hanging out with my donors two weeks ago on a party, and one of them told me that there are now already shows about vampirism in German TV (just by the way).
Isealdor: xeurika, wiki and peer review don’t really go together well in my mind...one is inherently open, the other is very closed
Rath: Then we bait the media, They want the glamour and the mystic about vampirism. To them we are crazy, we need to show them we are different and have our own culture but at the same time where apart
Phoenix_Nefarious: Even in the churches I’ve found that are open to who I am and what I stand for.
Camazotz: MadameX had a good idea- we should focus on that perhaps?
NyteMuse: The general tone and image IS getting better...but I think most of the crit about talking about vampirism in leather stems from documentaries that were done 5 or 10 years ago
Isealdor: Sorry, missed MadameX's idea, what was it?
AcrophobicPixie: Cama - missed it.. Repeat?
Malcaius: Cama makes a point every vamp I’ve come into contact does have similar feel to them deep down which then has the different layers of their personal experiences and life choice pile on top
AncientKhan: The media is not accepting us. They're using us for ratings and attracting sponsor money...
cynsanity: What we need is people who the average viewer can imagine as a vampire but still is normal enough
Camazotz: focusing on methods rather than putting people into niches
jbshadowrose: I don't like referring to "Spiritual" Vampirism as a culture. That sort of ties it into the Vampire Lifestyle
xeurika: true Isealdor, I was thinking of the wiki software to try to solve the technical issues rather than adopting the concept
Luxuria: Khan, that is what the media are. A big money spinner. If no money is made, there is no media on it.
AcrophobicPixie: Madame X, care to elaborate?
Isealdor: ahh, gotcha, so like use wiki software, but in a closed environment, xeurika <Ren`> I have a feeling there’s going to be another surge is misinformed individuals after the release of New Moon in November
Zero: @Rath -- that is kind of what we have been doing - we have to be accessible enough to the media so that they feel like they have "a vampire" to put on TV. Hence, the corporate Goth look without the over-the-top makeup and fangs. I think this is favorable for the current media climate.
AncientKhan: The media are making us tools...
xeurika: exactly Isealdor
* jbshadowrose agrees with Khan
Rath: I work full time at a law firm, I coach little league baseball, I go to college
Isealdor: xeurika: ok, that might work :)
MadameX: The number one question I get these days is not what is a vampire... it’s what kinds of vampires are there...?
* Sanguinarius mutters about vampires and lawyers ;)
Zero: @AncientKhan -- the media makes everyone tools. The successful people are the ones who make the media their tool at the same time.
Gabby: *is happy I never did the fangs on film, lol
NyteMuse: @Ren, considering New Moon has such little vampirism in it, maybe it'll be the Otherkin & Therian communities that take the bullet on that one.
AcrophobicPixie: @Xeur/Izzy - how hard would that be
Isealdor: MadameX, can you explain the method vs label thing more, please?
* NyteMuse agrees with zero
Rath: I don't hide what I am, but I am expected to keep things to myself
MadameX: My response is that there are various methods of vampirism...and I continue from there <Ren`> AncientKhan: Yep. Nothing we can do about it though. People like ash went on tv and that loser on fox made him look crazy.
AncientKhan: Zero, are we really doing that at this point, or chasing 15 minutes of fame?
Zero: @MadameX -- Yes, everyone wants the taxonomy, right off the bat, don't they?
* Lono676767 mutters don’t get me started on insurance agents and media agents
Isealdor: MadameX: By methods you mean feeding styles, or...?
xeurika: not too easy Pixie, but not too hard technically
* cynsanity hearts zero for using the word taxonomy
* AcrophobicPixie nods at Xeur <Ren`> Madame: The other day I had someone in #losthaven asking about being Hunters.
MadameX: that is correct...feeding methods...methods of draw
AcrophobicPixie: I remember that Ren'... was somewhat disturbing <Ren`> Or something to that effect.
Zero: @cynsanity -- hah! it's totally a Scrabble word
xeurika: I'm trying to come up with a framework for it
AcrophobicPixie: her bf claimed to be a hunter
Zero: @Ren GAAAH!
Luxuria: How about, rather then trying to find a definition of Vampirism, trying to look into the branches of Vampirism and progress from there... <Ren`> Even things like this have taken their own life outside of the community, it's like a game of telephone <a_b>cyn, shows about vampires on the German TV...?
Luxuria: Like looking into your family tree... Where you came from, where your cousins are from...
Rath: lux that’s a good idea, but again when do we stop?
xeurika: unfortunately, I'll have to leave for at least a bit, getting a hot tub for free, catch is moving the thing from the back of a town home <Ren`> I'll bet money on it that most of the bending of this information starts in high schools
Phoenix_Nefarious: Hunters are close minded people that are basically the same as people that do hate crimes
Zero: @MadameX and Luxuria- that's a good way to defuse the "vampire types" discussion. It's the kind of thing that the muggles pick up from bad fiction and comic books, and it’s just plain silly
Luxuria: @ Rath. There is no *stop* the community is too large. There will always be someone to say 'That's not what I am, but I'm a vampire'. Different races, almost. I'm sure Vampirism splits into more categories after Sang. and Psi.
Sanguinarius: muggles?you mean mundanes?
Malcaius: hunters are the skin heads of vampirism
Isealdor: Speaking of site designs, that's something else I think the online community needs, which is fairly important...to have decently designed and supported sites <Phoenix_Nefarious>Agree
Zero: More accurately, I'd say that religious nuts who commit hate crimes against our community get dubbed "hunters" because we're none of us immune to pop culture
Rath: well maybe we need a point of no return, and place to stop and go this is to much
SphynxCatVP: and CONSISTENT NAVIGATION
Lono676767: i have only heard of one case where a vamp was beat up by supposed hunters...and in the police report nothing about vamps were mentioned.. it just reported a hate crime because he was wearing Goth clothing.
Isealdor: muggles <3 Harry Potter
Rath: ise That’s on TV right now
Isealdor: amen, SphynxCatVP
SphynxCatVP: ya'll don't hear the number of times I swear at someone's site that looks like it was tossed in a blender on "frappe"
Luxuria: I've already got my tickets to the film next week, Isealdor <Ren`> Phoenix_Nefarious: No this girl was like crazy. She thought or maybe we thought that her boyfriend whom she was describing was going after people he thought were 'vampires' after searching the net though I found no news of such attacks
Malcaius: sang and psi seem to be the major definitions but your right there are smaller branches from those two trees
Merticus: There was the pizza delivery vampire slayer case (don't have the link handy) but that wasn't "community" related - was just a nut.
Luxuria: Malcaius, Hence why I suggest that finding a definition is too difficult.
Sanguinarius: it's the nuts you gotta watch out for
MadameX: sang and psi may not be the best way of splitting methods...
cynsanity: Not a lot of such things happen anymore these days, and if they do, they usually don't land in the newspaper
Zero: sang and psi are used differently by community insiders and outsiders talking about the community. We don't usually use it as a strict taxonomy, and acknowledge that it could be more a preference than a "type," bot outsiders don't get the subtleties
melkia: is it ok to ask questions or not ?
Isealdor: Ok, this may sound weird, but I see separating ourselves because of things like if we're sangs or psis, etc, being akin to the LGBT community splitting between Lesbians, Gays, etc
Isealdor: it does us no good to split up along that sort of thing
Rath: speaking of hunters anyone live in AZ?
SphynxCatVP: Isealdor, exactly, same impression I get :)
Zero: @melkia - yep, totally ask away!
jbshadowrose: ... Hunters?
Sanguinarius: but psis are different than sangs, have different needs, philosophies, etc
Luxuria: Isealdor, but surely using Psi and Sang already splits you up like GLBT?
SphynxCatVP: Sangi, only in feeding methods :P
melkia: how valid are hunters now days anyways
Isealdor: Sangi, Lux: the point is that there are differences, and some different needs, etc...but both groups as a whole have a lot of the same issues and challenges
cynsanity: Sphynx, what about symptoms?
TUSK: But enough people consider themselves both
Malcaius: yes but instead of looking at what splits psi's from sang's shouldn’t the community as a whole look for the things we share in common
MadameX: if we continue to split things between sang and psi... we will be left with hybrids... and you are still putting people in niches
SphynxCatVP: starvation is starvation
Sylvere: Sang, Psi -- different bodies have different needs. Who cares what form it takes?
Merticus: Akasha Knyghte brought up an interesting point elsewhere the other day - one that has be echoed often - why do (or do we) feel the need to separate ourselves by "individual types" rather than by "feeding methods"... in other words: "Sanguinarian Vampire" vs "Vampire who is a sanguine feeder".
NyteMuse: I sort of agree with MadameX
Zero: @MadameX - that's why I don't favor an essentialist definition of "vampire"
Luxuria: Isealder, sure, but still. You're asking to find a definition for a rather large community that could possibly expand beyond two different types.
SphynxCatVP: Merticus- I don't, for the most part
Sanguinarius: I say define it by needing blood or energy
AcrophobicPixie: Mert, cause it's less to type?
NyteMuse: It's similar to looking at carnivores vs. vegetarians.
xeurika: agrees with zero there
NyteMuse: As Sphynx says, "Starvation is starvation" <Ren`> Personally think outside of Psyvamp where one either feeds on certain types of energies, or otherkin where you find solace with different animals. But we are not a real community with responsibilities like hunters gatherers or priest for you WoW people
Isealdor: Lux: Why does it have to come down to definitions?
cynsanity: I'm with Sangi on that one
Sanguinarius: vegivores! :D
MadameX: my suggestion would divide methods along the lines of Physical, emotional, sympathetic, mental, astral, etc...
SphynxCatVP: I'm really not that certain that those "artificial descriptions" are as black-or-white as most seem to think <`Kiddo`> I may be going off on an odd tangent, but I'm thinking that there needs to be some sort of distinction made from the general community's beliefs of what real vampirism is, etc versus the few people preaching about the Aset Ka. I've seen in a few places that it causes confusion more than formulating other opinions on it because there is lack of information on one side, but a lot of mixed up information on the other.
Zero: Some categories tend to defy essentialist definitions. "Vampire" in ANY of its linguistic uses is one of these troublesome categories.
Gabby: But hey Sangi, throw a loop at you, there's energy in the blood too ;)
Sanguinarius: Energy is completely different than blood is.
Sylvere: A vampire is a vampire is a vampire.
Valens: That would be cool only if the job entitles pointy ear elf caps. And if it'd be useful to have that kind of structure.
melkia: did people miss my question ?
Zero: that's why "those vampires in congress" can want more taxes..
Sylvere: Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, or Mt. Dew?
AcrophobicPixie: Mt Dew
Zero: @melkia - yes, I sure did, sorry
cynsanity: melkia, I believe so. Would you ask it again?
Isealdor: We're a definition-happy community, and there are times, when I just dont get it...we try to make definitions when we have very few "facts" to base the definitions off of...which just makes for a mess
Luxuria: Isealdor, because that is what people are talking about ^_^ I think I might be back in the conversation from 5 minutes ago. But, at the end of the day, people (Who may not necessarily be members of the Vampiric community) will want some form of explanation. Whether that be 'Well, what exactly are you?' or 'What is the community as a whole'
Isealdor: melkia, repost, please?
Gabby: dr pepper
Phoenix_Nefarious: Just as a Human is a Human is a Human No Color No Beliefs....
melkia: ok i will
Sylvere: @Sangi: But the need to feed is the same
Sanguinarius: Can I plug my book, while we're on the subject of definitions?
xeurika: I've liked the concept of the distinction of ethnic vampire v. vampire culture
SphynxCatVP: I think Melkia wanted to know how valid hunters are? Unless there's another one I missed?
melkia: how valid is hunters and slayers now days and another thing how do they know that there targeting a REAL vamp <`Kiddo`> There doesn't necessarily have to be a solid definition, though, just a solid distinction from what one says versus the other, because the two ideas(generally speaking) are not close to the same.
AcrophobicPixie: most hunters are nutters who think they're Buffy
Lono676767: agreed pixie
AcrophobicPixie: at least, that's what I've seen
Isealdor: hunters/slayers are by and large very rare and fall into the categories of either roleplayers or people committing assault and battery
Rath: well Melkia when i was about 15, I was in AZ and they're is whole city of them, and they're all nuts
cynsanity: melkia, at least over here in Central Europe, we don't have any of that hunter-stuff.
Sanguinarius: or Blade
Agaryulnaer: Or religious nuts
Gabby: Doesn't agree with her lovely Sangi, they are different, one is tangible to hold, but they both still have energy of/in/behind them.
NyteMuse: No hunters in CA either. At least, not the Bay Area
xeurika: as AcrophobicPixie said, but there are sociopaths as well
Sylvere: The only nutters in MO are Fred Phelps et. al.
LadyMargravine: my grandma is one of those religious nuts... it sucks that i can’t reveal my nature in my own home.
Vamppirre: Hunters in NYC
Sylvere: But they're technically in KS so...
Merticus: Then the whole initiatory vs awakened model comes to mind... and are those who view vampirism from a "spiritual" perspective any less of a "vampire" than those who view it from a "conditional" perspective? Not something with a true black and white answer I know...
Malcaius: see we need to go back to basics, instead of defining lets just state the one thing each of us feels is true about ourselves, we are for lack of better word Vampires, sure you drink blood and you take energy but that’s not what matters , just the fact you are a vampire and this is our community
Camazotz: Where would you take that Merticus?
Zero: @melkia - I don't think that the idea is valid at all. like I said, it's just hate crimes when it's not roleplayng. we just make it sound cooler when we call it that BS
Phoenix_Nefarious: There were in the Late 80 and 90. But, Most of them attack blacks dating whites too.
SphynxCatVP: Margravine, how soon before you can move out?
Agaryulnaer: IMO the religious nuts are worse...
AcrophobicPixie: Lady, a lot of people can't until they can move out on their own, and even then there's their Daylife and Nightlife
Sanguinarius: well if it's just a spiritual thing, then anyone who wants to can be a vampire and I might as well throw in the towel because I'm not helping a bunch of non-vamps with things
SphynxCatVP: YES EXACTLY!! >>> "we are for lack of better word Vampires, sure you drink blood and you take energy but that’s not what matters, just the fact you are a vampire and this is our community"
Sanguinarius: Especially not with vamp support
LadyMargravine: 2 1/2 years
melkia: i think another thing that the community could do would be to keep info up to date as possible
SphynxCatVP: That sucks :(
Isealdor: wait, spiritual does not equal "by choice" in my book, thanks
Sanguinarius: initiatory thing
Sylvere: Spiritual = religion
Isealdor: SphynxCatVP ^^^agreed, completely
* Sanguinarius rolls her eyes
cynsanity: If "vampire spirituality" is now being grouped under vampirism as a condition, I think I'll... I'll... sit on my sofa and feel depressed, slightly.
Luxuria: If it is a spiritual thing, then I am a vampire. IMO, for the record, I'm not. But that's not the point. I put myself in situations where I can draw from positive energy. I don't do it because I lack the ability to do it myself. <Ren`> Spirituality is a block of the concept of religion
SphynxCatVP: I do a lot of eyerolling at "spirituality"
SphynxCatVP: but then I've had born-again relatives try and shove church down my throat as a kid, so.... ya'll can understand I hope :)
Merticus: Personally, or in a community context? Personally, I'd view both as valid within the context of the subculture but at the same time two distinct groups or schools of thought with often significant overlap. For my own personal interpretation of "my vampirism" I adhere to a conditional/awakened model. Though I don't begrudge others their beliefs or interpretations.
Merticus: In other words - just throwing it out that as a devil’s advocate position.
Merticus: Not from a personal context.
Camazotz: kk merticus
Sylvere: @Sphynx: I save my eye rolling for religion & the fluffer nutters.
AcrophobicPixie: I never saw the draw.. my spiritual beliefs have nothing to do with my involvement in the Vamp/OK communities
SphynxCatVP: Sylvere- that usually gets even worse reaction from me :)
Zero: there should be a way to talk about spirituality without making vampirism a religion, or making everyone with a vampiric interest into "a vampire"
Sylvere: LOL @ Sphynx
xeurika: kind of why I like the ethnic vampire concept, a distinction that some are born vampire but that doesn't infer participation nor exclude participation in cultural or spiritual aspects
Phoenix_Nefarious: Ok. How many people have died in the name of Vampyres.. Weigh that against People died in name of religion... Now which is more deadly...?
Zero: Again, "Vampires Today" draws a very adept distinction between the spirituality vampires have and a spurious "vampire religion."
dread123: paranormal, metaphysics, otherkin, vampirism are the best! :P
Lono676767: is it egos? That cause the divide? <Ren`> I'm tired of being thought of as nutters myself. Outside of the community at large I would be though. Funny how the very people who are actually crazy are driving the connotation of vampire as it really is
Isealdor: Agreed, there, zero...vampirism = not a religion, personally. Not to say there aren’t vampiric/vampirism related religions...just that's very much a minority of the whole picture
* Luxuria is a paranormal anomolisticist, or something along then lines.
melkia: i think its the ego lono
Zero: @xeurika - I liked the ethnicity metaphor right up until "vampires today" made a case for "identity group" <Phoenix_Nefarious>I agree with dread
Vamppirre: ....However, it could be leveled in some extent
Rath: I personally think vampirism is due to the chakra's not being connected right, thus making an improper flow of energy in the body, by feeding you correct the imbalance
Sylvere: @Zero: Agreed <Ren`> Rath: Personally, I like the trauma angle.
cynsanity: I just don't see how you can ad up vampirism and religion...
Malcaius: Lono yes sometimes the divide in the community is helped to grow by the ego's of those who have a semblance of power that they have created by leaching on the young and undereducated
Zero: @Rath - unfortunately, that's not something that we can really prove, or define beyond the difficult-to-define "chakras
Gabby: I personally don't think my vampirism is a religion, I was born the way i am
Zero: still relying on a religious concept, just not one of our own
Merticus: The whole "you choose a religion, you don't choose to be vampiric".
LadyMargravine: i agree, rath
MadameX: perception is reality
SphynxCatVP: @ Merticus - Exactly :)
Sanguinarius: mine's not. I'm pretty much a-religious...don't have the time or inclination for it
Zero: @Rath - i.e., it's fine for a personal definition, but not suitable for a public one
Sylvere: @Merticus: yep <Ren`> Personally Vampirism requires a form of energy work most of the time. Energy use is a concept of spirituality. Visa vi religion
SphynxCatVP: I never had religion, it's kinda hard to lose what you didn't have to begin with :)
AcrophobicPixie: my religion and vampism/otherkinism don't really mix
Merticus: Very true.
cynsanity: I don't need to use energy work, at least not that I know of.
Sylvere: My religion is one of those "religions of one"
LadyMargravine: @spyhnxcat - yes, i'm the same <Ren`> To draw in energy, you need to work it
Malcaius: if vampirisum was religeous in nature could'nt we in theroy just give it up completely? <Ren`> Usually, right?
xeurika: true zero, there are a lot of valid points for "identity group" but I think the condition of vampirism at least as I think of it includes those who have the phenomenology but not the identity. the unaware/ unawakened
AcrophobicPixie: but the way I see it, they don't need to mix for me to function sanely
Sylvere: I go to a UU church though. Go fig.
Agaryulnaer: Vampirism is a state of being, and religion is a state of faith
NyteMuse: @Rath. And I'd disagree with that theory
Vamppirre: What about Paganism? like the old ones?
Luxuria: Ask a devout Christian to give up their religion entirely.
AsarGangle: I think more often than not if vampyrism is brought up they say subculture not religion'
cynsanity: How do we know that I'm drawing in energy when drinking blood?
Luxuria: It doesn't work... It's bred into them like manners at the dinner table.
MadameX: anything can become a religion... coffee worshipers...
Malcaius: amen agaryulnaer <Ren`> cynsanity: Oh ifyour Sang then it's different of course
* AcrophobicPixie nods at Madame X <Ren`> I was speaking from the standpoint of being a psychic vampire myself
SphynxCatVP: cynsanity, if someone can come up with a good way to describe that, I'm all ears
AsarGangle: good point anything can become a religion.....scientology
xeurika: I'm not a fan of the "subculture" thing. I think other than self identification there isn't a whole lot of "cultural identity"
Luxuria: Cynsanity, because blood has sugar, which has calories?
Isealdor: You know...conversation for the last like 20 minutes I would kind of sum up with that I think one of the things the community as a whole needs is to solidify and be comfortable in ourselves, including that we have different views, opinions, beliefs, etc
AcrophobicPixie: Paperclips are Scientology, according to their latest ad
* Sanguinarius agrees with Isealdor
Zero: @xeurika -- I agree fully, except that the phenomenology is totally indefinable right now; it's going to be hard to pin down a "vampiric" group without their self-identification, until we can actually figure out what's different about vampires
AcrophobicPixie: I agree with Izzy
cynsanity: Blood hasn't that much sugar to sustain a person over a length of time
Merticus: Many people prefer "vampire community" to "vampire subculture" - I've actually been asked twice now by the media what would be the preferred descriptor in their articles and if "subculture" was offensive to us?
Merticus: Though some claim to not like the word "community" so... it's a trade off.
MadameX: How about Vampyre Society?
Zero: @xeurika, or, more accurately, the phenomenology is completely dependent on self-identification at the moment. There’s no vampiric medical profile suitable for independent diagnosis, for example.
Sanguinarius: subculture includes all the vampire fans and more...community just includes the real vampires
AsarGangle: I agree subculture does have a bit of a negative sound to it
Sylvere: Culture, community, potAYto, poTAHto
cynsanity: Please not "subculture"...
Valens: I personally like the idea of community. In some cases, it may bring us closer.
Isealdor: I'd almost rather see subculture to community, when talking about it as a whole, because we are sort of a collective of communities
Camazotz: I don't like subculture, but community is a complete misnomer at the moment
SphynxCatVP: I do prefer 'community' over 'subculture'
AcrophobicPixie: I understand, Merticus. I mean, look at my brother. He's a vamp but avoids the community with a vengeance
* Sanguinarius disagrees with Sylvere
dread123: humans will never understand us because their scared to look past the veil :(
diss: sanguinarius, saying the community includes just the real vampires, where are we donors in that?
Malcaius: Isealdor i agree with you, because often the simplest model is the best one to use and the community has become fractured by over complication to much labeling and arguing and not enough commonality, take the basics and let them set the standards of the community as a whole after that its up to you what you do within the greater fold of the community
Vamppirre: Is there a word out there better than 'community'?
Sylvere: We're a community in that we're a group of people who associate together based on common interests and similar experiences.
MadameX: I assume no one likes Society...vs Community?
Zero: @Camazotz - "community" is pretty much a self-definable term, in general. Communities have all kinds of levels of organization, permeability of borders, rules or lack thereof, etc.
AcrophobicPixie: dread - vamps are still human. They're just different
Sanguinarius: donors too
xeurika: @Zero agreed but I think with research say genetic, fMRI, data that that could be different in the future, at the moment self-identity is all we have, but I'd hate to be shackled to that model
Merticus: I tend to prefer "community" because it doesn't necessarily imply cohesion (as in society/alliance/association/organization) etc. while at the same time not denoting a "sub" class of participants in a greater culture or identity group... but that's just me.
Sanguinarius: hang on while I draft a legalese document for the thought I wished to convey (back in several days)
Zero: I really don't like "society" at all.
Luxuria: I ask, in a community so split, what *are* the basics?
Camazotz: @Zero community to me applies that we have some sense of feeling for each other
Hablion: Humans with Energy Deficiencies
Isealdor: MadameX: actually, I could work with society
* cynsanity agrees with Merticus
xeurika: I agree with that Merticus
Lono676767: Subculture sounds more exclusive, where by community sounds more like a group of vamps/donors/otherkin that’s more united (ok I know united isn’t the word I’m looking for )
Sylvere: We're a subculture in that we have our own lingo and are different than but still part of the larger culture.
Lono676767: That’s true syl
NyteMuse: @Hablion But not all vamps have what I would consider specifically an "energy deficiency". Some have an EXCESS of energy, just not usable
Isealdor: with society being used in terms of things like "American society", where it's broad and covers many communities, minorities, and the "majority"
Zero: @Camazotz - "community" is one of those non-essentialist definitions, too
Sanguinarius: so does the Jewish subculture
NyteMuse: And where does that leave donors, again?
Camazotz: fair enough Zero
Vamppirre: So it stands to reason that we are a community, culture, and society?
Gabby: I’m for Community, Society, though a good word, sounds too formal and singular
Agaryulnaer: Until it is more of a trend or main-stream, subculture will more then likely be the term used heavily.
Agaryulnaer: And in that case, I prefer it.
Miizturi: And some feel it's a condition that is either in part or whole physical..at least those with physical only needs.
Phoenix_Nefarious: For Me I like Family. That’s how I see you all. And always have I feel Family should describe us. <a_b>hablion, not everyone agrees on the energy deficiency theory. i don't think that description would be a good choice..
Zero: subculture really does apply, in some cases. In the sense that vampires ARE a certain demographic, but have formed a culture.
Merticus: I'd consider donors integral to the community - they are as much an important and key part as the vampires themselves. You can't have one in a healthy stasis without the other.
* Sylvere doesn't like Family
Vamppirre: Do we really want to remain in shadows?
* NyteMuse sort of agrees with zero
Zero: subculture, in my opinion, is more accurate and definable than "community." as community implies intention
cynsanity: Anything from the sociology POV?
Sylvere: There are people in the VC I wouldn't spit on if they were on fire. They are definitely NOT my family.
Sanguinarius: whether we want to or not, we're not going to
* NyteMuse agrees with Sylvere
SphynxCatVP: Vamppirre, hey, if YOU can get a decent paying job (other than "McFood" or "Can I ring that up for you") then you need to blend in, and being openly vampire is not blending in
Lono676767: you have your energy deficiency, you hace your altered, you have your merged symbionts, ect...lions tigers and bears oh my..
cynsanity: Oh yes. Can we please ditch the term "family"?
LadyMargravine: i for one, would prefers not to remain in the shadows, but there are too many haters in my area....
Isealdor: Ok...so basically the debate of if we're a community, culture, etc, comes back down to being similar to trying to find a definition of what a vampire is. We're just not going to have everyone agree, because people have different perspectives. My big question with that, though, is does it really matter? What does the label actually mean/provide us with, etc?
Rath: I am open about what I am
AcrophobicPixie: you have your walking talking smorgesboards...
Rath: and I work at lawfirm
Vamppirre: I have a decent-paying job.
AcrophobicPixie: for every yin there is a yang
Rath: I am asked not to discuss it
Sanguinarius: if it does matter, why does it matter?
Agaryulnaer: A, Family, is also closely linked to the mafia. Not a great thing to be tied too.
Miizturi: Vampirism is just too varied in nature to put one specific reason behind it, that's the problem in most cases.
Luxuria: Isealdor, do labels really provide anyone with anything. Honestly? Label a Christian and they'll argue against it.
Gabby: I am very open about myself as well, even a large chunk of my family knows
SphynxCatVP: Vamppirre, do they know you're a vampire? Are you open about to everyone?
Zero: @Rath - I am very glad for you! it could easily go the other way
xeurika: Agrees with Isealdor
Isealdor: Exactly, Lux...so why the fixation of the community on it? Is it something that the community really needs?
Vamppirre: If they ask, I tell.
LadyMargravine: label a christian and they'll argue against it, yes... but then a lot of them label us too
Rath: Zero I also work hard at what I do
Rath: and to keep an open mind
Phoenix_Nefarious: They are Family too. But, Just More like the brother in the pen for beating his wife. But, still family. You never know they might straighten out.
Luxuria: Isealdor, maybe not the community, but individuals are always in the search for a label. It's human nature to process things in identifiable ways.
diss: I’d go for communities, plural. i would hesitate to call us a subculture, we are way too varied for that, and our shared lingo is more of a specialized tech-speak. But we're definitely more than one community. I don't see us as a society, because we're not encompassing the rest of society. So my preferred term is vampire communities, in the plural
Rath: with everything and etc, I try and educate people on what I am, how other people feel and etc
Sanguinarius: diss may have a point
Isealdor: Ok...to drag this back again...what other things do people see as being important/needed in the community?
xeurika: I think Isealdor brings up a good point. Perhaps we should focus on more practical and pragmatic points of advancement rather than semantics.
SphynxCatVP: sanity :P
Agaryulnaer: Subculture is still your best bet. It does not imply negativity nor is to ominious
AcrophobicPixie: I agree with Diss. I mean, there's a board in our little system for everything
Zero: For advancement, we need to think about goals. For that, we should think about what our deficiencies are, and how to mitigate those
cynsanity: Comparing the OVC to scientific institutes... same topic, different approaches, and all of them considered to be valid within a certain limit.
Sylvere: Sanity & smaller egos
SphynxCatVP: Agaryulnaer, actually, "subculture" does to some people, it's why I avoid using the term
Merticus: Yes, we may never resolves the semantics issue in our lifetime..or before we lose patience trying at least. It's like trying to define "religion" etc.
AcrophobicPixie: there's Donor only boards, Psi Vamp boards, Sang Boards, Lil bit of everything boards...
Zero: We've taken first steps - the greatest deficiency is the outside perception of vampirism as dangerous, cultish, deviant.
diss: something i would like to see, if/when people interact with the media, would be that they bring their donors with them, that donors are not only spoken about, but get to speak themselves
Miizturi: Could call it "The Network", cue Verizon Wireless tone.
Zero: We're turning that around, slowly but steadily changing the public discourse. <`Kiddo`> We have a lot of resources online to educate people about, but is there any local umm "outreach" (not the term I want) going on? Like maybe community lectures people might want to sit in on?
Gabby: My donor did speak!!
Agaryulnaer: Those people should be smacked then.
cynsanity: @diss: But not a lot of donors want that
AcrophobicPixie: @Kiddo That's what this is to try and do
xeurika: well finding ways to advance research. Maybe find a way to get some fMRI access to document activity in the brain when feeding, beaconing, or just plain empathic points that we feel but aren't widely accepted
Isealdor: Kiddo: there are some, like the TWILIGHT Gatherings, some of the Houses' open house things, etc
Phoenix_Nefarious: But, It makes use seem less than a Culture. Subculture by meaning is a Culture below another. Not What I see for us. We are no different. Then the other cultures out there.
AcrophobicPixie: Diss, there's a reason why I've not been on TV..
SphynxCatVP: Agaryulnaer, it doesn't help that "subculture" is often used to describe Goths, punks, ravers, etc.
Sylvere: @Kiddo: also Meetup.com
Sylvere: I run a group for Vampires, Otherkin, & Goths on Meetup
Agaryulnaer: No, it doesn't help at all.
Zero: @Kiddo - I think that the media efforts have actually been efficient first steps at public outreach.
Miizturi: Eh. Meetup.com ... the people near me are very sad.
cynsanity: When I was asked by that weird Dutch show, at some point it declined to "bring your donors and feed in front of the camera". My donors were appalled.
Gabby: agrees with Sphynx, don’t like 'subculture'
AcrophobicPixie: due to how badly people view vamps, how do you think they'll view donors? We'll be labeled as utter nutters. That, and I have my family to think of
Merticus: Where will the community be, what do we want to see "accomplished" - if you think we should be working towards a goal - after the dust settles and "vampires" are no longer the flavor of the week in the popular culture and media - at least for a short time between TrueBlood, Twilight/NewMoon/etc.?
diss: cyn, pixie, just like lots of vamps don't want to be on televison <`Kiddo`> Yes, I agree zero, but I was more asking if there were local gatherings, open house meetings or some sort people can come to instead of going via the internet.
Sylvere: @Merticus: Don't expect vamps to go away anytime soon.
AsarGangle: I think the only issue I would like addressed is.... keeping pediphiles out of our "community" We have dealt with this a bit where I am and it seems to be a issue
Zero: @Kiddo - I agree with Sylvere about meetup - that's an activity where outsiders can come into contact with the vamp community
Sylvere: Laurell K. Hamilton is working on an Anita Blake series.
Sylvere: for TV
Isealdor: AsarGangle: that is a good one...and I'd branch it out to include promoting general safety and common sense throughout the community
diss: but e.g. if somebody like Joseph Laycock comes around, make him aware that he should be interviewing donors as well as vamps
Sylvere: Yeah, IFC and Lionsgate are producing
SphynxCatVP: (but then I've been a fan of the books for a while)
Rath: I would love a local meeting that didn't attract those wearing black and dressed like they might use me and beat me. i. e HK open house
AcrophobicPixie: no matter who they cast as Jean Claude, I will be disappointed, I believe
Gabrielx: I think vampires will mostly always be a flavor of the week, especially because in those between times that's when their appearing on Maury or doing interviews etc shrug.
xeurika: Part of the reason people view vamps badly in my opinion and what good some of the media has done is my opinion is in the past the only time anyone heard of "real vampires" were when some wingnut showed up on a daytime trash talk show or a sociopath cries vampire after something bad happened.
Gabby: Mairi and I hold group activities whenever possible for those we know well, and newcomers.
Sylvere: How the hell they're going to do the books w/o getting X rated, I have no idea.
Sanguinarius: At the risk of getting kicked in the head...I want to say that "sexual vampires" give perverts a foot into the door of our community.
Lono676767: ugh if i have to answer one more email about if we glitter or where they can buy trueblood and why I don’t sell it I’m going to go bannannas!
Merticus: Many of the meetups are suffering because people are willing to pay the organizer fees (http://vampires.meetup.com) to keep them running etc... I'm wondering if other offline local groups are filling that void or are people simply floating off on their own?
SphynxCatVP: diss << It's easier to do that if we know the interviewer isn't going to turn out a wretched piece
Sylvere: @Pixie: Me too
cynsanity: I have a question
AcrophobicPixie: shoot, Cyn
SphynxCatVP: Lono! I have a page on my site dedicated to the popular media whoring vamp shows :) http://sphynxcatvp.nocturna.org/media/documentaries.html
Phoenix_Nefarious: I have meet Some Very Honorable people in our community on meetup. We just need to be more selective on who joins in.
Agaryulnaer: Then there are people who don't like to show up at all to meetings and watch from the sidelines.
cynsanity: You know, you guys over there in the US have a really cool scene. We have nothing. We have no proper homepages, no sites, no events.
Isealdor: How much of that is because people don't want it, though, cyn?
Gabby: hey Merticus, we just had an almost free gathering 2 weekends ago, and are planning a fall gather in VA, then a March Gather in Williamsburg 2010
cynsanity: Would it be possible to collect some money via paypal for an event?
Miizturi: I beg to differ... At it SEEMS like there's not much of a scene in Chicago.. mainly just east and west coast.
Phoenix_Nefarious: Some of us are afraid at first. They have been hiding what was inside.
MadameX: Cyn where are you?
Gabrielx: I think we ourselves fuel the questions, and popularity in vampires
Gabrielx: meaning to or not
Reija: Miizturi - not much scene in Chicago, but there is in Detroit
Rath: aren't you in Chicago Isealdor?
cynsanity: I've talked to and chatted with Austrian and German vamps, and they were all more or less lost
AcrophobicPixie: Miizturi - There's a scene in Ft Wayne, IN
xeurika: it's quite a bit intimidating to show up in person, not knowing what to expect
AcrophobicPixie: not Chicago, but it's closish
Merticus: Someone in Europe will have to take the initiative to set something up... they know their community better than anyone else. I noticed on VCMB they are talking about a UK meetup... are they discussing financing and donations?
Phoenix_Nefarious: So we watch helping a little then standing back and watch
cynsanity: @MadameX: Austria
Isealdor: Rath: I'm in Missouri, mostly, currently
Rath: ah, I could have sworn
Miizturi: I've heard of the one in Detroit.. but bleh. I think I'll just go party in Neo and not worry about it. XD
Sanguinarius: people can translate the articles and info I have on my site, just give proper credit and a link back
diss: Merticus, we actually already had a London meetup earlier this year
Merticus: How many attended?
AcrophobicPixie: @Miizturi, there's also a pretty decent sized group in Indy. At least there was when I lived there
diss: 7, so not many. it was just VCMB people
cynsanity: But the UK Meetups from the VCMB are strictly British, and there needs to be something for non-English speakers in Central Europe, something solid without V:tM mixed in
MadameX: Cyn, there are many vamp groups in Europe... they don't really mix with Goth or fetish... you may find them thru more spiritual or occult groups.
Gabby: The state of the economy in the US does not help people have events right now
Lono676767: I second that zeurika.. I’m never sure about the formality or territoriality when I visit different areas, even if I give notice that ill be there.
Rath: Great culture here, save a freak preacher I love Ohio
diss: and i agree with cyn that having a continental event would be good
Isealdor: Local, small events are more popular right now
AcrophobicPixie: @Gabby, yes. We were supporting a meetup for the Black Swan Haven (BSH), but due to the economy and the like, now there's only going to be 3 people going
Isealdor: things as simple as 10-15 people getting together for coffee, going somewhere for dinner, etc
Gabrielx: isealdor: with the economy the way it is, it's much more effective and efficient that way as well
Miizturi: The ability to network and gather is free though. If people really wanted to have an event, they could without much cash.
Valens: That's what I think Gathering Dusk in. Coffee.
SphynxCatVP: I've got some translation links on my site (though if they suck, ya'll need to tell me 'cause I only speak English, and some days that's bad enough)
Sylvere: @Valens: Yes.
Isealdor: I know here in Joplin there are a lot of little paranormal group and pagan group things being ran that way, works well
cynsanity: I mean, I'm sitting here in the middle of Europe, and occasionally get media requests without anything working out, occasionally get requests from awakening vamps, and that's it. What the fuck am I supposed to do anyways?
AcrophobicPixie: Izzy, I'd love to do something like that in PGH, but apparently all the active people except for myself and one other are young teenagers
AsarGangle: Good point Lono.... It can be difficult in a new city formalities and territory
Merticus: As Madame X said, most of the European groups I've come in contact with are either A. Private to the point they are hard to find or connect with or B. Otherwise attached to a LHP/occult/etc. leaning spiritual system
AcrophobicPixie: it'd be odd to see a mid 20's woman with a bunch of tweens
cynsanity: Sphynx, I could translate your site.
Sylvere: I made Gathering Dusk meets either at a coffee shop or a local restaurant
Sylvere: Depends on the weather.
Merticus: Though a couple in Paris, Netherlands, etc. aren't.
Sanguinarius: that might be due to the sociopolitical environment of other countries
cynsanity: You can choose between German and 16 dead languages.
Isealdor: Pix: try working with the pagan groups, they tend to be a little older, or work with a local para group who is friendly
SphynxCatVP: cynsanity, before you do, you'll have to tell me if the translation buttons I've already got are decent for the language(s) you speak
MadameX: Cyn, I recently began a Portuguese vampiric guild... we started out as a chat on MSN...
SphynxCatVP: and....I got a LOT of pages....
AcrophobicPixie: I know. The Pagan Alliance used to be very active here,...
AcrophobicPixie: I've just lost my contacts with them
Gabby: Yeah the smaller ones are working...our 2 weeks ago was camping, free local stuff, and general gnoshing chit chatting
Miizturi: I know someone in the UK who has that problem. He's a days worth away from any of the major cities, and his town is just about dry with vampiric activity.
cynsanity: Sphynx... for German, uhm... well.... not that good, if I might express myself that diplomatically.
* diss looks at cyn: Merticus said the netherlands :)
Merticus: There used to be an Austrian Vampire forum but they are no more.
cynsanity: I know, Sphynx, your site was one of the first I found
Rath: If your in ohio or surronding state, I might be up for a weekend of fun where I can actually meet people.
SphynxCatVP: cynsanity, google translate sucks that bad?
Merticus: @cyn You are still the online active "Austrian" vamp I know - or that are on my lists.
MadameX: that's what i meant Luxuria thanx... Im going to the UK next month
SphynxCatVP: Are you german or austrian? (seeing Merticus' comment) and is the language slightly different between the two?
MadameX: Belfast area
SphynxCatVP: (I know portugese and brazilian are similar but different enough a translator doesn't do both)
Miizturi: Oo. Belfast.
cynsanity: German and Austrian are the same language, only with slight phonetic differences. And I'm Austrian, but speak High German.
Miizturi: Northern Ireland is Britain.
SphynxCatVP: High German?
MadameX: Portuguese and Brasilian are the same actually
MadameX: much like British and American
cynsanity: High German is the standard of good German language, syntax and grammar.
Gwenyn: I took one year of German in college this past year, and know a tiny bit of Czech
Lono676767: so in short.what has been accomplished?..
cynsanity: Just like MadameX said
Isealdor: In what sense, Lono?
Merticus: Brazil actually has a flourishing community at the moment - Lord A. (and another group I forget the name of) are doing a nice job organizing there.
Sanguinarius: that is good
MadameX: you forget the name? shame...hehe
Merticus: MX aren't you going to be filming there for The Collective soon?
MadameX: maybe... its a definite possibility
Sanguinarius: hey MadameX, plug your show in here so people will know about it
MadameX: my show...hehe
melkia: she has a show?
Miizturi: theres a show?
Sanguinarius: the video series
Isealdor: oh, btw, what all are the sort of "future plans" for the Collective,
SphynxCatVP: the Collective, right?
MadameX: The Collective videos
MadameX: we have several sites
MadameX: we are on youtube... myspace ... metacafe...
Miizturi: link us :o
MadameX: Vampyre Lounge at Vampyrelounge.com
Merticus: Need me to post links? I keep a window handy of links to everywhere...
LadyMargravine: hello ^^ it's been awhile since our chat about how to deal with blood cravings.
Agaryulnaer: Hmmmm, nice video blog.
Sanguinarius: yes, links!
MadameX: That would help Merticus
Merticus: Everyone who has Twitter - are you following the "Vampire Community News" there? http://twitter.com/VampireNews
* Sylvere is following VCN like a lemming
Merticus: What other issues within the VC are people interested in...?
Merticus: Concerns, questions, things you're pleased about, things you're angry about, indifferent, or otherwise?
Isealdor: And any other random vampire-related convos people want to talk about?
Merticus: So, those who are donors in the room. How do you feel you are treated and/or represented within the VC?
AcrophobicPixie: but it depends on where you look at about donors
Isealdor: who all is a donor here, out of curiosity?
AcrophobicPixie: you get anything from "OMG donors are the most awesomeness of awesome" to "We only put up with you because we -have- to"
* AcrophobicPixie is a donor
* diss is a donor
* Sylvere is marrying her donor
Sanguinarius: the world needs more donors <Lux|Sleep>donoring makes me sick.
Gabby: has been donor to other vamps
TUSK: most likely a donor
NyteMuse: Is, you might want to specify there...
AcrophobicPixie: I've been a donor off and on for over 10 years
NyteMuse: Some of us vamps are donors as well :p
* cynsanity wants to move in with her donor in Amsterdam
Sylvere: I have donated in the past but I don't make a habit of it.
Isealdor: nah, that can be included, too, nyte ;)
* Sanguinarius wants to find a donor
Agaryulnaer: And some of us just lurk and watch everything
* Lux|Sleep has donated, just made me sick.
* NyteMuse raises hand
AcrophobicPixie: I've been with the same vamp for 5-6 years
Isealdor: that's sort of one of the interesting things that doesn’t get talked about much...the number of vampires who also will donate when needed
* diss wants to move in with her vamp in Amsterdam
NyteMuse: Isealdor, don't forget the vampires who almost metaphysically need_ to donate
TheMadameX: 20 yrs ago it was very taboo for a vamp to donor at all...
AcrophobicPixie: And then there's the non vamps who -have- to feed
Herrellia: is there anyone in here that is newly awakened?
diss: pixie, you mean, who have to donate?
Herrellia: okay.first time on here that is why i am asking so many silly questions
cynsanity: Herrellia - what do you mean, you were awakened? <Lux|Sleep>Another question: (Possible trigger for some) Would you feed from someone who has just lost a child, through miscarriage?
Herrellia: cyn- i was just saying that i am not very experienced at feeding and especially sheilding still
TheMadameX: I don't recommend feeding from anyone in a weakened condition
AcrophobicPixie: I agree with MadameX...
Sanguinarius: good recommendation
* Isealdor agrees with MadameX
Merticus: Nor a weakened psychological condition for that matter - lest you want them attached at your hip and be responsible for them.
Sylvere: @Merticus: That's no lie.
TUSK: Me close to two years. Unawakened psiV on an existing system. Sympathetic condition after a broken link
LadyMargravine: i am sort of experienced... but i am having a strange memory lapse and i have reverted back to the 'unconsciously feeding' stage
Sylvere: No more stalkers for me, thanks.
AcrophobicPixie: Sangi = I'm a psi donor. I don't want her to feed while I'm sick, in case it affects her
TheMadameX: YES Merticus, physical, psychological...even astral debilitation is something vamps should keep in mind
Herrellia: on Lono's site i was and had been reading about a post a friend of mine made a while back and the topic he was referring to feeding off of the "dead" and is it possible ... so any psys have anything to say about that topic?
cynsanity: Did we have any other topics tonight?
Merticus: Do you think there is enough "donor" education out there in the community today? What sources (question directed to vamps) do you use for learning how to treat and care for your donor?
Sanguinarius: there could be more donor education
Isealdor: cyn: open topic, now...pick something and have at
AcrophobicPixie: I'm trying to help on that, Merticus... But with my current schedule, I'm a year behind on what my plans for the BSH were to be
SphynxCatVP: oh, I seriously think there SHOULD be more donor info out there, but, ah, I dunno what's needed
Hablion: I don’t know enough about psi to really donate but I’ve been reading up a little :/
cynsanity: The USA and Europe: Vampire Community - can it be international?
Sanguinarius: and getting it is pretty hard
Isealdor: I dont think there's nearly enough donor education
Sanguinarius: same with otherkin info
diss: Pixie, do you want help with BSH?
AcrophobicPixie: we're currently working at my site on making actual articles for our FAQ section that are a bit easier to read
TheMadameX: Sometime ago Imon and myself wanted to compile a book of articles of Donor assistance... but there was little interest from the community
* Lux|Sleep would appreciate donor information.
AcrophobicPixie: currently, they're a bit medically
ladyrenee: we need more donor info
Merticus: Is everyone familiar with Black Swan Haven here - Pixie mind linking?
Isealdor: there's a lack of good donor resources, too, really...was talking about that with diss earlier. There's BSH and then a few smaller things like diss's blog
AcrophobicPixie: Diss, I'll let you know. We're still in the planning stages
Sylvere: The RVCA (http://www.real-vampires.moonfruit.com)has or had members in the UK, Australia, S. America, Canada, and even Africa
AcrophobicPixie: http://www.blackswanhaven.organd http://www.blackswanhaven.org/forums
* Lux|Sleep would be willing to test out donor information.
Sylvere: I think the VC is global. We just get more attention in the States.
* dread123 needs a donor from England, around east midland area
ladyrenee: how about Spain?
Herrellia: im pretty sure the VC is international
Isealdor: There are some in Spain. The community in Europe is fairly different than the community in the US...not typically as open
cynsanity: Are we, as a community, interested to provide everyone with the necessary information?
Merticus: http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/resourcelinks.html - A good resource for links in case you miss any mentioned here tonight.
SphynxCatVP: I sure am
AcrophobicPixie: I would hope so, Cyn
diss: Pixie, if you do need people to write etc, you can check out my style on my donor blog -http://mizzdizz.wordpress.com <typh-away>there used to be a lot of info. but then sites go unmanaged and disappear
AcrophobicPixie: if we don't get the right info out there, think of what all could go wrong
Sylvere: We were going to do translations of articles into other languages to help bridge the international barriers.
AcrophobicPixie: yeah, well, BSH had some.. technical.. issues the last three months or so
Sanguinarius: trying to get people to help with that is a pain in the ass
Sylvere: I'm not fluent enough in French or Spanish to do that, unfortunately. <Lux|Sleep>I'm willing to aid translation.
Merticus: Yes, now that we actually managed this chat (since talked about a while) we might have a shot of actually translating some articles.
Merticus: Least I'm hopeful.
AcrophobicPixie: AKA - Pixie went missing for a bit again
* dread123 looks around for something tasty to bite
cynsanity: Okay, then why don't we split up our resources? I could translate stuff into German, other people could do other things
* Lux|Sleep speaks some French and German
LadyMargravine: i have a friend who's sort of an empath... i don't know what to call her. she's a hyper active person and she affects everyone in that way, even me. she's my psu donor <3
* Sanguinarius looks for people to translate for her too
LadyCathleen: ok so what is the issue at hand...I am trying to keep up
AcrophobicPixie: Lady, one term for her is a battery
Sylvere: @Merticus: Corvis Nocturnum & I talked about spearheading that book.
Sylvere: Guess we should get back to it.
AcrophobicPixie: cause s/he keeps recharging you
cynsanity: Sanguinarius, I sent you a message about 5 years ago about translating your page into German
Merticus: Yes, I believe Corvis was hoping to be here tonight. <Lux|Sleep>For the gazillionth time, G.night Ise haha *hugs*
Merticus: His book is coming out soon btw.
* Isealdor still needs to read through Corvis' book...
SphynxCatVP: I thought it was already out?
* Isealdor adds it back to the to-do list <Lux|Sleep>Oh, for the record, I'm soon going to be learning Italian, too.
Merticus: Should be out later this month.
Herrellia: i still need to find a way to get to some kind of library.
SphynxCatVP: *confused look* does he have more than one? Maybe that's where I'm getting confused
Merticus: Allure of the Vampire: Our Sexual Attraction To The Undead (http://www.myspace.com/allureofthevampire)
Isealdor: it's basically rewritten, is my understanding, Sphynx
Herrellia: need to brush up on the Psychic Vampire Codex (http://www.amazon.com/Psychic-Vampire-Codex-Manual- Magick/dp/1578633214/ref=sr_1_1)..... and anything else i can find
Merticus: http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/eventsmisc/recommendedreading.html I need to update this listing.
TheMadameX: Please feel free to contact me via email@example.com
AcrophobicPixie: does anyone have anything specific that they'd like me and my staff to cover re: donors?
LadyMargravine: topics change fast here... i can’t be away for a minute @_@
* dread123 wonders how to find a donor :/
Sanguinarius: dealing with the kids/young vamps
Sanguinarius: and donors
Isealdor: best way is get to know people, dread, or tell a very trusted friend and see if they're willing
cynsanity: @Twin: why donors become donors
SphynxCatVP: @ Pixie: I'd be interested in seeing articles about what it's like from the non-vamp donor's perspective
Sanguinarius: me too!
AcrophobicPixie: kind of like the ones I submitted on the VVC?
dread123: i can't ask my friends.. else they won't be friends anymore :P
SphynxCatVP: Uhhhh, proably? :)
Sanguinarius: if anyone has an article they'd like to contribute to http://www.sanguinarius.orgsend it to firstname.lastname@example.org
Herrellia: how offten do these chats happen?
Isealdor: don't really know yet, Herrellia
AcrophobicPixie: we haven't set a definitive schedule, yet
Hablion: What do you think would be the best things to know if you decide to become a Psi-Donor? To get a topic going
AcrophobicPixie: this is the first one to "test the waters"
Isealdor: this is the first one, but we'll have more and set a schedule at some point soon
Merticus: It's not really formal... meaning it will go until it dies off for the night so come and go as needed.
AcrophobicPixie: omg, Hablion.. How to know when your vamp "ate" too much
Merticus: And feel free to bring up whatever topics you'd like.
AcrophobicPixie: I mean, it's a bit faster and easier to tell when a vamp has taken too much of the b word...
Isealdor: do you have any questions or something you want to talk about, LadyCathleen?
AcrophobicPixie: not so much for psi energy
diss: for psi-energy, they've probably taken too much when you have trouble standing up afterwards
AcrophobicPixie: I don't want to trigger the vampgasm again
Sanguinarius: what's the b word?
SphynxCatVP: Pixie, actually, it's a good idea for an article on when they've had too much blood, too
SphynxCatVP: for those who just don't know what to expect
AcrophobicPixie: yeah, but I've never donated the b word
TobiasApollyon: okay, so topic is donors?
Isealdor: atm, yes, Tobias
AcrophobicPixie: vampgasms lead to the Pixie gagging
cynsanity: "too much blood"?
Hablion: I've been interested in Psi Donating hehe but I still have alot to learn :/
SphynxCatVP: Pixie - Ok, fair enough :)
TobiasApollyon: Aye, the first and formost thing to learn is your own levels of energy and what is "safe" to give
Sylvere: Donors: recipies?
Isealdor: Pix: what are some common donor concerns you run into the most?
AcrophobicPixie: It takes more time though, with psi donors, because a lot of us start with no psionics training when we get into this
diss: though, again, still with donating psi, some of us recharge so fast that that even if we're flopping around on the floor at the end of feeding we'll be back up and running around half an hour later
Hablion: being in here earlier was making me feel all tingly lol
Isealdor: oh, and diss for that question, too :)
AcrophobicPixie: the two main ?'s I get are "Where can I meet a vamp/can you matchmake me so I can be a donor" and "OMG, When do I get the mad monkey luvins?"
Merticus: Next topic you'd like to discuss?
Merticus: Or more on the one we're discussing...
Gabrielx: any news on that girl that went missing?
AcrophobicPixie: thanks to the vamp smuttie books, quite a few newbies think that they get intimacies in exchange for their energy/b word/whatever
Merticus: Last I heard she was still missing. It turns out the primary suspect (James Hataway) was NOT dabbling or even interested in vampirism or cannibalism as reported on various news outlets and the CNN segment. Another example of the media and ‘satanic panic’ mentality run amuck - http://wdbo.com/localnews/2009/07/police-learn-more-about-person.html
Sanguinarius: who's missing?
TobiasApollyon: how about feeding blood versus feeding psi? Differences, alike?
Gabrielx: apparently the guy she went missing with happened to also be a suspect in another "missing" person as well
WingedWolf: Is that the one who got offed by the Russian mafia?
Sanguinarius: Susan Walsh?
Merticus: No, that was Susan Walsh.
Gabrielx: http://www.cnn.com/video/?JSONLINK=/video/bestoftv/2009/06/22/jvm.ocasio.s uspect.cnn
AcrophobicPixie: no, new missing girl
Sanguinarius: yeah I like how vampires got blamed for that one :/
Gabrielx: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-tracy- ocasio-061809,0,2909098.story
Gabrielx: Tracy Ocasio
Gabrielx: there's a missing person website actually linked through those pages as well that pulled up a lot of interesting information on the primary suspect
Gabrielx: I think it's important that information gets out to as many as possible
LadyCathleen: that is one I missed...wow l feel as if I have been living under a rock
Valens: But who is the general population going to believe. Their precious media or the ones being accused of it?
Herrellia: someone please fill me in because i think i have been living under a rock
MikeFuture: missing girls are ALWAYS abducted by vampires (sarcasm).
WingedWolf: So some case of domestic violence is going to be foisted off on the OVC again? :P
cynsanity: Mike, you know that's what we do.
LadyCathleen: of course we are EVIL don't you know
Gabrielx: mike: no zombies?
cynsanity: Abducting virgins.
Isealdor: or devil worshipers, or some weird cult group, or a gang...
Valens: I'd rather not be lied to by the media... : /
Herrellia: lol and the vampires that make it on some kind of news are not even actual vampires
WingedWolf: Yeah, there aren't any redneck bible thumpers beating their girlfriends to death, after all.
diss: donor concerns... ...i can really only speak for myself, but one thing that (i think) i've noticed is that donating psi seems to worry folks. maybe i'm just projecting, because early on i was quite sceptical about that myself. i think it's a feeling that they can control it when somebody feeds sang from them, they can push the vamp away or something, but they don't know how to control a psi-vamp who's feeding on them
* AmberPsionic rolls eyes.....
AcrophobicPixie: never fear.. the police shall notify us in case of a zombie attack
MikeFuture: zombies aren't capable of abducting people
Gabrielx: np I just thought it should be a topic
Gabrielx: since from what I know she hasn't been found yet
Gabrielx: so if any of you are out in FL and can help out..that would probably be real cool
Merticus: If you feel like you are living under a rock: http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/newscalendar.html
Isealdor: diss: do you think teaching shielding more and such would help people feel more comfortable with that?
LadyCathleen: That is something that should be taught first hand if your feeding from someone psi
AcrophobicPixie: Is, classes on basic techniques would be lovely. I keep meaning to touch base with NyteMuse to try and get something started
AcrophobicPixie: but we've both been so busy
Isealdor: Pixie: I have the transcript of a basic shielding class up on the Realm
LadyCathleen: clases would be nice
LadyCathleen: the vamp feding should be mature enough to do this
diss: Isealdor, i think that may help, but it does take time to learn shielding techniques, in particular ones which actually work against a half-way competent psi-vamp
cynsanity: ok... all donors raise their hands
* AcrophobicPixie raises hand
Hablion: do want to be donors count cynsanity
Isealdor: cyn: echoing Nyte's point from before, counting vampires who also donate sometimes, or not?
AcrophobicPixie: if youre a wannabe (in a good way) we count you in our number
AcrophobicPixie: You're just a Donor Virgin
* diss raises had
cynsanity: Donors should be part of the OVC, right?
Hablion: yes in the good way as in interested
Rath: I'm looking for a new donor
Rath: live around ohio let me know
Isealdor: Donors /are/ a part of the OVC
* Hablion rasies hand then
SphynxCatVP: cynsanity, I would think so, yes
Sylvere: Donors *are* part of the VC
Gabby: raises hand, tho i haven't donored to another vamp since 2004 other than my hubby
LadyCathleen: they should be, yes
* dread123 is looking for donor in UK :P
AcrophobicPixie: Izzy, unless you're a meannie and are all like "Donors should be fed from, and not heard from"
diss: i definitely consider myself part of the OVC, yeah
cynsanity: Donors are important, for psis and sangs.
Gabby: <--corrects self, donored via blood, donoring via psi i have done more often
cynsanity: I guess we should give them more of a voice when it comes to the media
diss: ...when are we getting / v / back?
Sylvere: @Cyn: ABC interviewed my donor but it was pretty brief
Herrellia: im wondering..... which is better: ambient feeding or direct feeding?
Gabby: both have their perks
Merticus: ABC interviewed RavenHarte from a donor perspective as well.
Gabrielx: herre: personally to me it would depend on how educated you are
AcrophobicPixie: depends on the situation and what's needed
Herrellia: i would just like to know for my own silly reasons <Ren`> The ABC article this past Halloween? Merticus didn't they mention you in it too?
AcrophobicPixie: I mean, in some cases there's only the one or the other. Other times it's preference
Gabrielx: or do you mean potency?
Isealdor: different thing, Ren
Merticus: This is for a filmed ABC special that will be airing in a month or so. (Yes on the printed article from Halloween ’08)
cynsanity: Can we focus on current stuff? <Ren`> Really?On Vampirism?
Isealdor: speaking of...when are we getting a date for that, Merticus?
Herrellia: well for me ambient feeding is okay as a pick me up but direct feeding is much thicker with energy...
AcrophobicPixie: Zilchy was to pass my info on to ABC.. apparently I'm not cool enough or something
Merticus: Not sure on an exact date yet since they are still filming segments.
Sylvere: ABC special = sometime in mid to late Aug. or early Sept. <Ren`> Ambient feeding for me is semi necessity. Tantric feeding in my experience is feeding off the energy released from the body during such a time. <Ren`> Like heat from a stove
TobiasApollyon: Okay, whats our topic as of late?
Sylvere: Open topic, I think
Isealdor: anyone have any convo topics they want to poke at for a while?
TobiasApollyon: meh, how about all the Orders, Houses, and other such organizations that keep popping up every now and then?
MikeFuture: now and then?
Gabrielx: Was that a question?
Anazrieth: Orders? Houses?
MikeFuture: it's never ending
Isealdor: What about them, Tobias?
TobiasApollyon: anyone want to discuss the good and the bad ones?
Valens: I think they can get nasty.
Sanguinarius: go for it
Gabrielx: I guess it depends on your personal view point
AcrophobicPixie: I agree with Gabriel
Gabrielx: ITS NOT MINE
Isealdor: Obviously someone thinks all of them are good, or they wouldnt exist
AcrophobicPixie: What house fits one person, won't fit the other
TobiasApollyon: Aye, my take is that every few weeks another organization pops up and either maintains a healthy membership or dies out
Isealdor: and sometimes no House fits someone
Valens: I'm not into the whole House thing, I'm really not. Too personal and no food.
TobiasApollyon: Aye, well its my dream to be able to organize a local haven, one of the reasons I brought it up
Valens: If it fits you, go for it but not for me. XD You're fun but I wouldn't exactly want to be in your House..or anyone's.
Anazrieth: Any org I align myself to invariably fails.... or I just fuck it all up
Gabrielx: Houses and groups is an individual choice. A lot like them as they feel they gain brothers sisters or friends. Every house or group can/usually is ran a different way. It could be about just teaching or it also for some could be money etc
TobiasApollyon: lol, Valens: I understand that, It's hard with all the drama and the BS heirarchy that often pops up with our kind being as territorial as we are
AcrophobicPixie: My old house was like an extension of my family
Gabrielx: while others choose to just learn and be by themselves.. having a house or group does not automatically mean you have to partake in political
Isealdor: or just be about friendship and community, really
AcrophobicPixie: it just happened to be almost all vamps :P
* Ren` is perfectly happy with lost haven, if constant problems would allow him to finish the friggin invitation
Gabby: I'm happy with Shadowlore, although I've never thought of it as a House, cause it isn't
TobiasApollyon: So, next topic then?
Sanguinarius: what's the next topic?
Gabby: how about a topic to ask how many of us grew into our awakenings, if during the teens years, alone or with others?
Herrellia: ooooo gaby good topic.... i can relate to that one
Valens: Not exactly teens, pretty much alone.
TobiasApollyon: Aye, my awakening occured when I was energy donoring for my ex-fiance about 4 years ago or so, maybe 5, cant' remember exactly
LadyCathleen: some of us still are in our teens
Sylvere: Geez, I think I started Awakening around 2 yrs old.
TobiasApollyon: It sparked my awakening, as she was one of those who subconsciously feed VERY often because she would deny who she was and thus put me in danger lol
Isealdor: I actually had nothing to do with the community by choice for a long time
Sylvere: Hard to remember back that far.
Herrellia: i awakend and in a way still am, awakening alone
AcrophobicPixie: I was a young one, too.. I started around 4-5... Finished around 19
Gabby: ok it could be at any age...how did your transition go?alone or with others?.....there
Sunshine1626: alone for me as well.
AcrophobicPixie: obviously the start was alone, since there was no net when I was in Kindergarten
cynsanity: I'm with Sylvere on the "awakening" bit
Gabby: I think my awakening started around 5, many reasons, but i didn't really get it until i hit puberty
YoungChild: alone and with many, just recently accepted it, blame Is for that
LadyCathleen: All my friends thought I was a freak..I was bi sexual and blood drinker....they were right I am a freak
TobiasApollyon: I was lucky, I was a "black swan" as they were called. A mundane friend to the community, so when I started my awakening I had many friends to help me through it.
AcrophobicPixie: well, due to me 1) not being a vamp and 2) being a form of fae, we theorize (my fam) that that is why my awakening was in two parts, at such extremes in my life
cynsanity: Twinny? Care to explain?
AcrophobicPixie: Cyn, my awakening?
Draco_: It's difficult to say when I awoke .. I remember having my first real hunger and the beast coming out .. I didn't know what was happening.. it felt good and painful at the same time
Gabby: my beast kept trying to get out, so to speak, when i was a kid, whew that was tough
Anazrieth: black swan?
AcrophobicPixie: well, we don't know why my awakening was different from the vamps that were awakening in my House at the time
diss: my awakening (as 'kin) started at about 16, with a second major part at around 21. i didn't have any knowledge of 'kin communities then, didn't even know the word
AcrophobicPixie: we just know that there were major differences, notably me having opposite reactions to stimuli
TobiasApollyon: Black Swan is a term I learned a while back, 5 years ago or so.
Herrellia: i think i have learned a lot in the past several months but not enough....lol
Anazrieth: I was possessed..... around the age 12....
AcrophobicPixie: energetically, I get confused for a psivamp, until you get a really close look at it
Sanguinarius: Anazrieth, weren't we all?
Ravena: possessed by what?
Anazrieth: I think a demon....
Anazrieth: I don't remember much before the end of that possession
AcrophobicPixie: Ravena, my system is kinda like a cross between a sponge and those lil sucker fishies you put in aquariums to clean them
Draco_: I wasn't possessed but some "caring" people thought I was .. exorcisms, as I found out, are no fun .. talk about drained dry.. and to think.. I allowed it
Anazrieth: like all my memories just went away
Anazrieth: I definately had an entity in my head
AcrophobicPixie: but then, I also generate scads more energy on my own than I need
Anazrieth: I locked it in a "Box" because I couldn't make it leave
Draco_: Anyone here have spirit guides?
Anazrieth: from that point on.... I needed to drain people of energy to survive
Anazrieth: Draco.... yes.... kinda....
Ravena: I don't believe anyone has to drain energy to survive
Gabrielx: I'm a reiki master .. that involves having Reiki "guides" in spirit form does that count?
AmberPsionic: I do Draco.....he calls himself Metatron to me
Gabby: my guides have been blocked from talking to me
Herrellia: before awakening had anyone ever felt like there were two parts to them, in a way opposites?
TobiasApollyon: I'm a Reiki follower, but I've yet to have my Attunements
Anazrieth: Ravena.... I don't have to anymore.... but I tested myself and got really sick the few times I tried to stop
AcrophobicPixie: Um.. Sorta yeah, sorta no..
Ravena: Herrellia, I think we all have a dark side and a light side
Anazrieth: this was years ago
AcrophobicPixie: I'm odd, since I'm a runic shamaness... I kinda have something you'd call a spirit guide
MikeFuture: I'm a Libra. Of course I have 2 sides.
LadyCathleen: yes, this is normal...you have a part of you that is trying to get out...therefore awakening
Anazrieth: I need to find a Reiki master to attune me
* Anazrieth feels an INTENSE need to a Reiki Attunement
TobiasApollyon: me too
YoungChild: not sure Eron is a spirit guild more so a pain in my rear
Valens: I've been tested for all sorts of junk, psychiatrists, energy manipulation. Awesome fun time. Not to mention a 30 dollar co-pay to the doctors D:
Gabrielx: some vampires actually report having issues with attunements
TobiasApollyon: I've been looking for a master for 2 years now
Sylvere: I have a spirit Guardian but not necessarily a Guide
AmberPsionic: Anazrieth...there are a couple in myspace....just look for some of the reiki groups, you will find them there
AcrophobicPixie: because of some of the vamp horror stories I've heard about reiki attunements... I'm kind of nervous about getting myself reiki'd
Anazrieth: Yeah.... I've recieved about 5 different attunements from people online
Herrellia: no not in the way of personality [im not sure if it is the right term] but like a deep feeling that you have something very different about you.
Gabby: the person who tried to do reiki on me failed miserably
Anazrieth: none of them have worked
Herrellia: it is hard to explain
Gabrielx: sanguinarius: Michelle Belanger for instance has issues with reiki and attunements. but it also goes against her chakra theory so.. it makes her sick
Anazrieth: and I feel like I get weaker everytime
Gabrielx: anaz: don't do online attunements
TobiasApollyon: Nay, it is best to get the hands-on attunements face-to-face
Ravena: I'd have to agree heh
Gabby: but then any time I've conciously done past life recovery meditation, that hasn't worked either
Anazrieth: I'm looking into two local Masters
Gabrielx: also don't go to those classes that want 600 dollars and 18 symbols
Gabrielx: it only takes 3 or 4
TobiasApollyon: Gabrielx, are you close to Iowa?
Gabrielx: tobias: I'm in California
Gabrielx: Northern - Sacramento
TobiasApollyon: ah, crap
Anazrieth: the local occult community is very tight.... so the Masters have a tight following....
Sylvere: Is it possible to have someone experience w/Reiki to "look" at you w/o messing w/anything?
* AmberPsionic is probably the only Canadian in here
* Sylvere is not up on Reiki info
Ravena: no, I'm Canadian
AcrophobicPixie: Syl, yeah
Draco_: Texan here
Anazrieth: ummm..... well the Reiki operates separately from the operator
Isealdor: there are at least 3 Canadians here at the moment :)
Hablion: Illinois here
Gabrielx: sylvere: They don't have to DO reiki on you.. they usually like to as it flows naturally
Gabrielx: it'd be like a normal energetic scan
Gabrielx: cept with reiki individuals seem to read different
Gabby: <--is in Delaware, delawhere?
AmberPsionic: Ravena.....I'm in Toronto
YoungChild: North Dakota here
Sylvere: I've always been interested to know how I "look" to people who can do aura readings, reiki, etc.
Sanguinarius: Arizona here
AcrophobicPixie: Syl, if you look anything like me reikiwise, you'll apparently look odd
* Isealdor is in Missouri, currently
Sunshine1626: Arizona as well
cynsanity: Reiki gave me my first OBE
Gabby: i can't conciously try to do OBE's either
Quiest: Toronto is too busy, full of garbage currently, lol. I prefer north of Toronto where theres the smell of cows and clean air.
Gabrielx: cyn: and ppl attuned with it have really cool things happen for the next few days to a week
Sanguinarius: SphynxCat's Vampire Support Page (for both sanguinarians and psi-vampires) has got lots of info and is organized for quick reference to information, both on-site and other pages.
Sanguinarius: It's athttp://sphynxcatvp.nocturna.org/
AcrophobicPixie: Sangi isn't the only site to be effective
Sanguinarius: Les Vampires is a longstanding real vampire website, forum and chat with the goal of being a useful and pleasing place to those who seek knowledge or support, whatever form their interest in vampirism may take. It's athttp://www.lesvampires.org/
Sanguinarius: Lady CG's Smoke & Mirrors Message Board is at http://smokeandmirrors34981.yuku.com/
Valens: What is everyone's vew on mostly self-taught vampires?
Anazrieth: self-taught vampires?
Sanguinarius: I'm mostly self--taught
Sylvere: Aren't most of us self-taught?
Sanguinarius: I had nobody to guide me
Gabrielx: I think a lot of Everyone is self taught
Sanguinarius: I was an idiot about it for years
Gabrielx: even if you find someone to "Teach" you .. you're self taught in my opinion
YoungChild: to a degree, i believe we are all self taught, but one can always learn more
Isealdor: Any and all are welcome at the Realm, toohttp://www.vampires.nu
Anazrieth: Yeah.... I was just an "IDIOT" for years
Gabrielx: you still have to cut through the BS
Anazrieth: still am.... a bit lol
Gabrielx: and one persons BS may not be your BS
Valens: So do you consider anyone completely self taught ot be an "idiot"?
Anazrieth: though.... not even sure how much I can identify myself as a vampire anymore
Sanguinarius: Go check out my vampire dictionary, The Dictionary of Sanguinese (Second Edition), at http://www.lulu.com/content/1797153and buy a copy! Heck, buy 20 copies! :D
Anazrieth: hell.... been having trouble identifying myself a kin
Draco_: Here is a question for everyone .. if you could some how flip a switch or something and be fully fed all the time but couldn't go back .. would you do it?
Gabrielx: draco: interesting question
YoungChild: depends on the downside Draco
MikeFuture: yes, draco. that way i can focus on other things.
zevil: any day draco
Sunshine1626: Draco: I honestly think I might.... but it also depends on what the downside would be
Gabrielx: yes, on the lack of things but if that was the case Im not sure how I'd perform in actually doing other things... when I have job interviews I use a base of what I am and feed on to gain understanding in the person interviewing me. As well as many facets of life now
Gabby: no, i don't think i could get a constant feed hook-up, i'd push the button all the time and get little else done
Obscurus: Wow, when it said "global" it meant it...
Obscurus: Gaia Online
Draco_: I just need to find a better way to feed, me thinks .. having to go out an feed everyday or waking up starving isn't working
Draco_: It seems since I started awaking my other side more .. I'm feeding more
Gabby: Mairi and I were talking recently about a latest bout of just not really feeling the need to feed, kind of odd
Sanguinarius: here are the three books I recommend the most for vampires
Sanguinarius: Practical Vampyrism for Modern Vampyres, by Lady CG - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411642996/sanguinar ius
Sanguinarius: I highly recommend this book for all sang vamps. It's got tons of practical advice, help and info that will make your life better.
Sanguinarius: The Ethical Psychic Vampire, by Raven Kaldera - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1413461980/sanguinar ius
Sanguinarius: I highly recommend this book for all psi vampires. It's got tons of practical advice, help and info that will make your life better.
Sanguinarius: Vampires Today: The Truth About Modern Vampirism, by Joseph Laycock - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0313364729/sanguinar ius
Sanguinarius: This is out now. If you want it, now's your chance to get it.
zevil: Real Vampires (Vampirism) on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=9513&post=49622&uid=7567904927 #/group.php?gid=7567904927
Obscurus: What do you guys think about the possibility of curing or at least treating vampirism without resorting to feeding?
NemesisofNormal: that depends on what makes one vampiric
MikeFuture: first you have to define vampirsm, obscurus
Obscurus: This is true.
NemesisofNormal: like if it’s a flaw in the energy body, then it could in theory be fixed
YoungChild: or how connected you are to your feeding/vampiric self
Obscurus: I think there are several different causes for the condition called "vampirism".
NemesisofNormal: but, if one is considered an Otherkin Vamp, then...well one is screwed
Obscurus: I just happened to have one of them that I was able to fix.
Gabby: i like me, and would never want to be 'cured'
Anazrieth: NemesisofNormal, not neccessarily true
Azarial: what makes an otherkin vamp 'screwed'?
Ravena: I think if it's "cured" it wasn't vampirism in the first place
Ravena: but that's just an opinion
NemesisofNormal: it’s not exactly fixable
Obscurus: See, I've thought of that.
Obscurus: And I wonder how many people were like me in that case of what I went through.
Obscurus: Because until I truly wanted it gone, it didn't matter what I did.
Draco_: I have feed astrally before .. my guide directed me to some "donors" ... for some reason they thought it was an honor to be fed from .. quite interesting and enjoyable
NemesisofNormal: otherkin vamps are vampires in the soul, not the body
YoungChild: ...i am blind
NemesisofNormal: this is also true
Anazrieth: if it's just a broken connection between soul and body
NemesisofNormal: then yeah
Anazrieth: now, if it's a problem with the soul
Azarial: how are you deifning otherkin vamps, then?
Valens: Sounds more like your guide had these people sort of tricked into it...
Obscurus: So just so everyone is clear, I no longer consider myself vampiric but I have been a part of the community for too long to just give that part up.
Typhoeus: Obscurus thank u for telling us
NemesisofNormal: but if its actually a PART of the soul, just as a bird flies and eats bugs and such, the otherkin vamp has to feed
YoungChild: not necessarily a bad thing Obscurus
Draco_: For me it might just be an incompatibility between my body and me... and vamping makes up some of the difference .. but I'm not sure
Obscurus: And I'm not gonna be like "U ALL NEED CURE" because that would be dumb and rude.
Anazrieth: NemesisofNormal, true.... kinda
NemesisofNormal: there are just too many different causes for it haha
NemesisofNormal: so many variables
NemesisofNormal: so I'll speak for myself
Anazrieth: most otherkin Vamps could fix the problem just by trading out the body
Obscurus: I just know that, for me, it was better to give it up. And it's possible I was never *really* vampiric in the first place. But I certainly did have the membership card for a couple of years.
Anazrieth: actual Vampire Souls.... kinda rare in my experience
Obscurus: But I used qi gong to fix whatever mine was, so I'm leaning toward mine being some energy body malfunction caused by god knows what.
NemesisofNormal: I guess I'm one of them then haha
Draco_: Anazrieth .. I think you are right .. but for some reason I decided this body is the right one for now .. :)
* Anazrieth has done lots and lots of subtle body mods
Anazrieth: NemesisofNormal, I believe you
NemesisofNormal: now here’s a tricky subject
Gabby: i think i have a vampire soul, having several incarnations as vamp, but not all my lives were exclusively vamp, one was therian wolf, other were human mundane
Anazrieth: perhaps I need to rephrase
NemesisofNormal: the removal of a broken, or otherwise malfunctioning chakra (attributed in some cases to some vampirism)
Gabrielx: I have met this Xylia Tzigane in atlanta
Herrellia: how would someone know if there chakra is malfuntioning or broken
NemesisofNormal: who knows?
Anazrieth: NemesisofNormal, doable..... but stupid
Sanguinarius: you have psychic smoke billowing from your navel?
NemesisofNormal: it’s a theory that some vampires have to feed because of a broken sacral chakra
Anazrieth: better to just reform as is <Xylia Tzigane> I live in Atlanta yes but I’m not sure who you are Gabriel
Typhoeus: Herrellia - have someone knowledgable in healing and cleansing scan you... or u can learn urself <Ren`> Oh Xylia Tzigane you live in Atlanta? <Ren`> Someone else from my hometown <Xylia Tzigane> Yes
NemesisofNormal: actually, heres my main point
Typhoeus: u should be grounding, cleansing/spinning ur chrakas nightly... even this exercise will help. your system will heal itself through time
NemesisofNormal: if a chakra is removed, could it be regenerated?
Anazrieth: NemesisofNormal, you can't really remove the chakra unless you remove the tether from the subtle body to the Soul
Typhoeus: nemesis... i don't know - i suppose the latter is possible. however i feel that a chakra is part "YOU" and can't really be removed. perhaps shutdown, closed off, blockage
Anazrieth: it would be a BAD IDEA
NemesisofNormal: I dont know why I ask, just wondering how crazy/stupid I and my friend are for trying
NemesisofNormal: he actually is fine
glitterlights: Oh My.
Herrellia: that could help me with spinning my chakra or something like that
Anazrieth: better to treat the flow of the Tether
Valens: If it works it works. But not for everyone.
Draco_: All life feeds on something .. without feeding ..life wouldn't work
Anazrieth: You could Rebuild the Tether
Anazrieth: but but never as Good as Nature made
NemesisofNormal: I'm not putting replacing anyone solar plexus with his, but it is kinda nifty when attached to a crystal and if you take care of it
NemesisofNormal: although..its a bit rough on my system to pull energy from it..
Anazrieth: best to treat the Tether.... the Chakra itself is a structure but dependant on the flow
Isealdor: 0_o what are we talking about now?
Valens: Best not to ask, Isealdor
Isealdor: gotcha, Valens
NemesisofNormal: I attached a construct to it that basically works as a ground wire, so it had a constant flow
* Anazrieth sits in the corner
* NemesisofNormal shuts up before he gets flamed
NemesisofNormal: I've had a lot of arguments over it is all
Anazrieth: just don't understand the context
Anazrieth: you're allowed your opinion
NemesisofNormal: mainly the arguments were over the possibility of it
NemesisofNormal: and yeah, it was a bit pointless I'll admit
* Anazrieth nods
NemesisofNormal: but, we wanted to see if it was possible to fix something like that
NemesisofNormal: as drastic as it was
Anazrieth: well.... to the subtle body
NemesisofNormal: but, luckily he was fine once he regrew it...though he had trouble breathing when I detached it..
Draco_: I've been trying different things as of late .. different feeding techniques or sources .. tried some traditional Qi Gong exercises... it rejuvenated apart of me.. but didn't really help my hunger .. I suppose it's a different type of energy? not sure
Ravena: it's not a different type of energy
Ravena: it uses your current energy
Draco_: I was pulling in energy... or as they say "gathering chi" .. from the stars and the horizon in the exercise
Ravena: from the stars?
Ravena: maybe if you tried something closer
Anazrieth: kinda odd.... I feel.... weighted to one side.....
Ravena: instead of light years away?
Anazrieth: like i'm going to fall over
Draco_: I can give you the exercise link
Typhoeus: there is no time and space with energy...
Herrellia: what is the topic now?
BKS: Would it be possible for a person to create a system of constructs that could cycle energy in such a way that said person wouldn't need to feed from other sources? At least not often.
NemesisofNormal: I know a person who has a system of constructs that pulls energy from the ley lines, and converts it to an energy he can use...so he claims
BKS: I mean a closed system. That you wouldn't need to mess with after you created it.
Typhoeus: BKS - there would be some maintenance to keep the construct going i suppose but yes it could be done and many do, do it.
Draco_: I'm not sure what the differences between feeding from people and feeding that way
almare: i think it would be a more pure source of energy
NemesisofNormal: well, -most- vampires need vital energy (chi)
almare: yes, i found reiki helps alot for my own needs
NemesisofNormal: so, it doesnt really matter how much energy from other sources you pull, unless its already been processed into vital energy, its not very uh...digestable
almare: being the reiki practitioner
Draco_: I mean I can feel the energy flowing through me with the Qi Gong exercises .. but it doesn't seem to quench my energy needs .. thats why I think there are different "flavors" of energy
Ravena: it's because in qigong you are using your own energy
NemesisofNormal: answer stated above
Draco_: Then why do they call it "Gathering Chi"
Ravena: it's not a feeding technique heh
Ravena: because you are gathering chi to targeted chakras/areas
Typhoeus: energy is energy... there is just different frequencys and depths to it... for instance ambient and core
NemesisofNormal: because you are pulling energy into you, and normally, ones system would process that energy into chi
NemesisofNormal: IF in fact I am understanding that you are pulling said energy from other places
Draco_: yes.. I was with the exercises
Draco_: but I suppose I wasn't integrating it
NemesisofNormal: One thing I've noticed is that there isnt a lot of stuff out there that says "if your system can’t process it, this may not work the way its supposed to"
NemesisofNormal: there needs to be a sort of..reiki for vampires course haha
Draco_: If energy is energy .. why can't I stick my finger in a light socket and get recharched
Valens: Is all of this really neccesary?
NemesisofNormal: cause electrical energy is WAY to harsh on the system?
Ravena: if this is in regards to gigong though, you are using your OWN energy
NemesisofNormal: and your body?
Valens: Why don't people drink some coffee, have a bite to eat, and wait for it all to blow over?
Draco_: You keep contradicting what others have I have seen in some of the Qi Gong teachings, Ravena .. you may be right.. I'm not sure why they aren't honest .. being the National Qi Gong Assocication
NemesisofNormal: chemical energy from food is different
Ravena: well, I was taught by a certified instructor
Ravena: not a google video
Valens: that's why!
Draco_: I will have to ask them ...
Ravena: I doubt the National assocation advised that qigong is a vampiric feeding technique
Draco_: and see what they say
Obscurus: Qi gong practices were actually what helped me to shed my vampirism.
AmberPsionic: is anyone else a member of fetlife in here?
Obscurus: Given, I was learning from books and a little bit from when I used to study kung fu.
Obscurus: So I didn't have any fancy certified instructor.
Obscurus: In Qi gong, at least.
Ravena: it does help balance energy Obscurus
Obscurus: Which is why I'm thinking my vampirism stemmed from an energy problem.
Ravena: oh, forgive me for having a certified instructor
Ravena: let's all agree just so we can be warm fluffy bunnies!
Obscurus: I'm not criticizing anyone for having an instructor. Just saying I didn't have one and I turned out all right. :P I think personal instruction is always the best, but that's just not an option for some people.
NemesisofNormal: ....no one has any clue what I'm talking about huh?
Draco_: I can appreciate a good discussion or even a respectful argument.. differing views is how we can come up with something new
NemesisofNormal: well...depends how "different" it is
NemesisofNormal: theres a fine line between different, and just wrong
Anazrieth: define: Wrong
* Ravena snickers and shakes her head
Draco_: Just different view points .. what works for one doesn't for someone else
Arantele: wrong is whats NOT right
Gabrielx: who defines right?
Draco_: I define right for me
Valens: So then if it works for you, it works for you If someone else says or knows it will not work for them and they practice something else it doesn't make them wrong, it just means your method won't work for them and you shouldn't spend time trying to prove what's wrong/right
Arantele: it’s a matter of perspective which has a different set of values for different people
NemesisofNormal: just look at some of the stuff on that link and you'll see what I mean
Ravena: there are some things that aren't a matter of opinion
Ravena: and some things that are
Draco_: I disagree .. everything is a matter of opinion..there are just different levels to it .. some thoughts just have more energy to them and more people accept they are true
Obscurus: I hate to be the Devil's Advocate, but what about things like the sky being blue and fire being hot?
Obscurus: Those aren't really matters of opinion.
Obscurus: Or maybe they are and it's just the majority opinion.
Ravena: proven science for example
Obscurus: Hell if I know.
Valens: What you and the other dood are trying to prove right and wrong with are opinion, there isn't a test to say "This causes vampirism outside of medical reasons, here's what the cure is, if that doesn't work then try this." If that were the case the vampirism thing it'd not be a problem except for people it really is incurable for. So you have to take into account different reasons that won't.
Ravena: but that's not a popular topic in these parts
Draco_: I like the quote .. "Who is the master that makes the grass green?"
Ravena: no, vampirism doesn't fall into the realm of science
Ravena: at least not yet
Ravena: so anything is mere theory
Gabrielx: technically the sky is not always blue
Obscurus: My personal view is that there are several things that cause vampirism, and as such it's incredibly hard to nail down very many specifics about it.
Obscurus: In a scientific manner, anyway.
Gabrielx: not even in a scientific manner
Ravena: just so it's perfectly clear, I wasn't trying to prove right and wrong
Obscurus: In general, then.
Obscurus: There is no right or wrong.
Obscurus: I'm going to put away my can opener now.
Obscurus: It's all just light and perceptions and yadda, but the fact is the majority of people will say "blue" when asked what color the sky is.
Gabrielx: well that would also be scientific ;p
Gabrielx: Is the sky blue at night?
Ravena: believing that every single thing is a matter of opinion is just a way to validate la la land claims
NemesisofNormal: also, if you keep someone locked up from the light of day all their lives, but tell them the sky is red outside
Ravena: but maybe it's just me :)
Obscurus: I agree with you Ravena.
NemesisofNormal: then finally they get out...what would they see?
Gabrielx: what about the light from the sun creating the spectrum with the light
NemesisofNormal: would they see blue, and be pissed off for being lied too their entire lives?
NemesisofNormal: or would he see red because that’s what hes always believed the sky to be?
Draco_: I will admit that in some points of view there are hard and solid rights and wrongs .. I just don't tend to live in the paradigm
Arantele: but you would be short guessed to try and make the statement that there is no such thing as right as wrong
Obscurus: Really, the color of the sky isn't really that important.
Gabrielx: it is to me
Gabrielx: I mean If I don't know the color of the sky
Arantele: unfortunitly there are certain things that "are" right and wrong
Gabrielx: that's pretty important
Obscurus: What does it matter if the sky is blue or red or magenta?
Arantele: it shouldn't IMHO
Gabrielx: it depends on what color shirt im wearing
Gabrielx: I mean I really don't want to be tacky
Obscurus: Since when did people start matching their clothes with the sky? lol
Draco_: I dreamt that the sky was red .. and it started raining red rain .. really kinda errie
Obscurus: Also, how do you know what color your shirt really is?
NemesisofNormal: the moon is red here....
NemesisofNormal: no really..
Obscurus: If, you know, the color of the sky is so up in the air (lol bad pun).
NemesisofNormal: it’s red
Gabrielx: could be pink
NemesisofNormal: isnt that supposed to be a bad omen?
Arantele: I think you guys are stretching the realm of reality
Obscurus: Red moons are caused by atmospheric gobbledygook.
Obscurus: Someone that cares more could explain it better.
NemesisofNormal: yeah yeah I know
Gabrielx: actually the color of the sky and my matching tshirt is very in the realm of reality
NemesisofNormal: but in superstition its supposed to be a bad omen I think
Arantele: but whats the purpose I suppose is what I'm asking
Arantele: trying to get the point across that the sky is blue is one thing......
Arantele: but then trying to equate it to what color shirt your wearing?
Obscurus: I think we're just shooting the shit, rather than getting at an actual point.
Obscurus: Other than one of those Matrix-esque "nothing is at it seems" conclusions, maybe.
Draco_: Question .. if you have experenced an OBE .. you know how real it is ... sometimes you are not even in this universe .. question ..if somehow you were not anchored here in this reality .. what is the real reality? ..or is it because we are anchored that we say something is real
Thundra: OBE as in Out of body experience?
Ravena: glad you have a handle on what is real Draco
Draco_: It's a valid question .. how would you know if you brain isn't hooked up some place to a fancy computer system .. I mean if it your senses.. they are just electrical impluses
Draco_: I think apart of awaking is realizing that we have the controls to our own reality .. some call the practice of it.. magick .. I call it Will, faith and belief
ArynChris: What WAS in the meeting, anyway? I just saw the post about this right before I got on, so I missed everything.
Sanguinarius: Chatting about a variety of topic. I'm sure they'll make logs available soon
Obscurus: The members list has shrunk considerably though. When I logged on it literally was a global chat.
Obscurus: It was like the whole world was in here.
ArynChris: People are leaving steadily.
ArynChris: WAS the whole world in here?
Obscurus: Probably not, but I'm a fan of hyperbole.
ArynChris: Because that, I would have liked to see.
ArynChris: Most everyone has left, and we all got here a bit late, so it's just chatting now, mainly...