VVC Public 2006-01-28

Written by: Voices of the Vampire Community
Link to original: http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/vvc.html

Voices of the Vampire Community (VVC) Public Meeting – January 28, 2006

This is an edited version of the Chat Log of the Vampire Community Leader Discussion held on January 28, 2006.

This log is edited strictly for length and readability. The edits are as follows: Almost all pre-meeting material was deleted. A lot of greetings, agreement, random comments, and humor was deleted. Some tangents were deleted. A few statements which were broken up into several posts have been rearranged in a slightly different order, to be easier to follow.

There is an unedited version of the log available for people who wish to read the entire thing, but this log is meant to show the meat of the discussion without requiring someone to read the entire 100 page version.

Editing done by Camille, so if you're annoyed because you feel something important got deleted, I'm the one to be annoyed at. [Further edited by Sanguinarius for punctuation, capitalization, and spelling.]

The Transcript for the Full Version of the Log can be downloaded from here (http://www.kheperu.org/files/VampireDiscussionUnedited.doc) in .doc format.

In Attendance:

[Zane note: 26 Attendees]
  • House LostHaven - Gabriel, WalkerofShadows, Kaine, Aki (logging)
  • House of Nephilim - TwistedThorns
  • Smoke And Mirrors - LadyCG, Craze, Jay Frost
  • Sanguinarius.org - Sanguinarius, Mirae (Lady Slinky), Yami_
  • House of Simion - Sim, Agar
  • House Kheperu - Michelle Belanger, Aarin, Cammey
  • Further Down the Rabbit Hole - Vorsuc, Twilight
  • SphynxCatVP - SphynxCatVP
  • Dark Dreams - Ravena_
  • Psychicvampire.org - Lono
  • Khan - Khan (represented himself)
  • Shadowlore - Mairi
  • Sarasvati sanguine vampire support page - Sarasvati
  • Bit Nibiru - Kai = Raine (they were at the same place)


Michelle: Should we consider making the log public afterwards?
Michelle: That's something that has been a downfall of things like this previously -- closed sessions give rise to speculation, seem like super-secret club meetings, etc.,
Gabriel: as well we have someone logging right now on here
Gabriel: which will be provided if wanted afterwards
Gabriel: ok all, we're running a lil late on starting this thing so I'd like to get it started if it's alright with you
Gabriel: Well, the first few things I'd like to say is thank you for coming. as for the log we do have Aki here for the sole purpose of logging. each of you will get an unedited log after we're done here
Gabriel: As well I would actually like to have all of your permission to host this meeting
Michelle: Given, with many thanks.
JayF: by all means here
Sarasvati: granted
Kai: Sure
Sim: granted
Sanguinarius: go for it
Mairi: Granted
LadyCG: of course you did the work for it, lol, seems fair
Agar: mk
Cammey: agreed
Aarin: you got it
Gabriel: hehe
WalkerofShadows: granted
Craze: *blinks* You mean you weren't already hosting it? Oh, I mean, yeah, given...
Lono: yup
SphynxCatVP: yes
Gabriel: Thanks *Smile* I'd like to make an opening statement on this meeting as many of you have been asking me why we're here, in that I'd also like to go over some rules for the night as well to .. not give Sangi such a big scrolling headache
Gabriel: so here's my opening statement and rule speak
Gabriel: After which you will have a chance to speak your mind, opinions, etc... First thing, even though it sounds a little corny just go with me on it
Gabriel: I would like to take a moment and do a visualization, with all of you...I'd like you all to see us all sitting at a rather large sleek circular desk with a nice comfortable chair
Gabriel: the fluffy ones :p
Gabriel: if you'd like
Gabriel: behind each of you is a closet... I'd like everyone, in their minds, to stand up out of their chairs... and turn around and open it.... inside you'll find hangers.. one for egos, one for titles, and one for all the things you've done in the past.. I'd like you to hang all of those up for a moment .. and during this meeting. *Smile*
Gabriel: And I'd like everyone to walk away from the vampthe hard cold floor .. no fluffy seats *Smile* we have an opportunity tonight to show we can all sit together be equals with one another and even through like and dislike have 'conversation' that will actually be helpful to all
Gabriel: ok, I'm gonna cut from the speech Michelle... this is how it is.. #1 we have a community that we can make even better, we have things we can fix.. we have the ability to do something here that can last or fall to pieces right here tonight
Gabriel: we're sitting on the floor .. ALL things start from the ground up.. and without ego, without pride and all these other things that tarnish us, we can have a chance to begin something. NOT a council
Gabriel: NOT a group
Gabriel: and NOT a website where each one of us preaches how ***** special we are
Gabriel: I was asked why I was doing this thing
Gabriel: WHY I cared. why bother, we couldn't put us in a room and get along
Gabriel: well you know with the conversation going the way it is.. WE CAN.. let's use it.. NOT everyone likes one another sitting in this room tonight
Gabriel: But we sure the hell can talk to one another
Gabriel: which is why
Gabriel: right now I'm invoking a rule
Gabriel: we're gonna light a symbolic torch
Gabriel: and no one speaks without it.. this torch will allow 15 mins of time to introduce yourself, your thoughts ideas and why you want to be here, your worries, etc.. you Don't have to use that whole time
Craze: Gabriel should go first, he's the host. :p
Gabriel: ok,
Gabriel: I'm Gabriel "Gabe" most know me, some don't. I'm the founder of House Lost Haven locally based in Sacramento, California, as well around the states with chapters I've been in the community since around 98 actively participating in 99 .. What I would like to see done here tonight is us possibly form a type of Geneva convention where we can all come together and discuss ideas to improve our community, functions, in general and overall. I think that does not require a council but a large group of us, friend or foe, sitting together and speaking on things and taking things from all angles..
Gabriel: I think we as a community and community leaders have a great chance to speak to one another openly like we really should be doing anyhow.
Gabriel: I think that we spite one another way too much, in the open for needless reasons.. and I think it needs to be more creatively put together for good uses
Gabriel: exactly... My question is this.. and open.. we've done this individually between houses.. (you can answer in your intro)... but why haven't we done it as a whole?
Gabriel: *tosses the torch to Twisted*
TwistedThorns: Pretty much I am here as an observer on behalf of House of Nephilim....Pij has not been around and I have not had a chance to discuss any issues he would like seen addressed. I would like to see people get along....various groups not squabbling between...
TwistedThorns: between each other
TwistedThorns: go on Sangi.....
Sanguinarius: I'm the founder of Sanguinarius.org and I am pretty much in the same mind as GanriekZ on this thing. The closest there was used to be a Yahoo Group...dang it, I can't recall the name at the moment...someone know? Pandora used to run it
Sanguinarius: but she had to dissolve it due to considerations in her personal life
Sanguinarius: I didn't have an intro ready. Not good at them... *hides*
Sanguinarius: yeah, GVN - Global Vampire Network
Gabriel: LadyCG: mind intro?
LadyCG: Greetings I am Lady CG, owner of Smoke and Mirrors Message baord, Author of Practical Vampyrism for Modern Vampyres
LadyCG: My entourage is Craze, my Head Admin and my Second Admin, my son, Jay Frost
LadyCG: I have been around the vamp communities since about '94, but became very active in about 98 / 99 when I became moderator of Vampiric Egroup
LadyCG: Three and a half years ago I created Smoke and Mirrors.
LadyCG: I think everyone who knows me knows that I am a big fan of the vamp community being all for one and one for all
LadyCG: I believe that united we are far stronger than we are divided
LadyCG: I am in favor of any kind of dialogue that furthers that cause as it is very dear to me
LadyCG: Thank you for Inviting me Gabe. I am grateful for an opportunity to get to know my counterparts in other communities... Passes torch back to Gabe
Gabriel: nod, I'd like to fix something that lady CG, just did that was very rude of me not to do , and I think Sangi wants to fix it too by the pm I just got
Gabriel: let's intro our guests as well
Gabriel: I brought with me WalkerofShadows, my international head of our house, aka: wolf_kin. He's done alot of publishings in the community, as well websites. as well with me is Kaine who is our head of our guards (security) for ppl when they visit etc.. as well
Gabriel: Aki who is logging the entire chat
Sanguinarius: My guests are Mirae, who is the main Admin for the Vamnpiric Community Message Board and Yami, who [please delete these stupid typos...]. My third guest couldn't make it (unless they're here and I just haven't seen them talk).
LadyCG: Sim.. your turn
Sim: Hi...I'm Sim...and I've been a vampaholic for over ten years now.
Sim: I'm one of the heads of House of Simion, based out of Texas with worldwide membership.
Sim: I brought Agar out tonight because he has a good handle on the situations going down in the Austin/San Antonio area.
Sim: I have no expectations from the Community in general. I am almost tired of seeing groups made to offer peace and solutions.
Sim: But hey, I'm gonna sit here and see what unfolds anyway.
Sim: I'm done.
Michelle: All right, here goes...
Michelle: I'm Michelle Belanger, founder of House Kheperu, author of the Codex. Been active in this community since 1991.
Michelle: I admire Gabe's ideals in trying to make this work. Personally, I Don't know if it will .. I've seen it tried and am, like many of the older folks here, a bit jaded about us getting along. I think we *should* but I Don't know if we can.
Michelle: My interest personally here is to hear what the community wants. How it wants itself presented. As someone who writes about the community and is contacted by other writers and such,
Michelle: I want to be able to offer a fair representation of everyone's opinions, not just my own. Frequently, however, folks Don't always speak up. If this gets people talking, I'm all for it.
Michelle: I brought Aarin with me -- my second in the Priest Caste, because he's got to learn the politics someday
Michelle: Cammey is a chronicler, that's why she's here.
Michelle: And with that, I'm done.
Vorsuc: For those not familiar with me, I'm part of a community founded for promoting the idea that vampires are "normal" people, coming together despite personal beliefs and spirituality.
Vorsuc: So the reason I'm here as we look to have the same thing on the agenda here and give full support to someone like Gabe who is willing to put the hard work and effort into it.
Vorsuc: I've brought Twilight, one of our more outspoken and vocal members. At that, I'll say "done".
Vorsuc: Next.
SphynxCatVP: I'm SphynxCatVP, owner of my site, SphynxCat's Real Vampires Support Page, and I've been active online since around 1998. My site promotes the idea that anyone can learn to "get a handle" on their vampirism without needing a group, and by not forgetting that some things can be dealt with by ordinary means
SphynxCatVP: I'm all for community togetherness, but I've seen so many come and go so I'm a bit jaded there as well. My efforts will stand, regardless of "community togetherness" or not.
SphynxCatVP: go ahead.
Gabriel: Ravena
Ravena: okay
Ravena: Well, I'm not really the founder of anything, those I do have my own site. My involvement in the community is in an online capacity because the people in the community I would associate with in person aren't anywhere near me
Ravena: I write articles, I suppose the most popular is "Enabling in the Vampire Community" and I'm advocate for down to earth approaches and not getting lost in la la land.
Ravena: and I'm here because I think people need to stop sniping and backstabbing auit making their forums and chat rooms breeding grounds for this sort of sniping etc. Hopefully we can find a common ground and the high school antics stop.
Ravena: end
Lono: I'm Lono. I've been in the community since 1998, owner of the psyvamp info exchange after Jack, (now defunct) currently the owner of psychicvampire.org/psivamp.org...and a fan of Ravener pm.
Gabriel: <-- speaks fruitbat.. he's a fan of Ravena's enabling article *Smile*
Lono: yes...I'm a fruitbat with a lag problem tonight unfortunately..I'd like to help the community in any way possible...ok I'm done..
Khan: I'm Khan. Though a member of a few groups, I come tonight representing only myself, a tired old man..
Khan: Tired of psy vs. sang, he said/she said, he stole this/she stole that...
Khan: So I'm here in the hope that wiser minds can come together and help end the foolish crap that tears us apart, so that we can get things like learning and helping those who need it...
Khan: With that, I'm done for now.
Mairi: I'm Mairi, founder of ShadowLore. Shadowlore is an organization that represents ALL Kin, not just vampirewide, that offer support and friendship both online and off
Mairi: I've been active in the community since 1999
Mairi: I'm skeptical about whether there can be unity for the vamp community but not adverse to trying
Mairi: I've seen a lot of these types of efforts come and go...but if we can be friends than I see no reason why we can't work together for common goals
Mairi: I brought no one else with me.......I'm it
Mairi: Next
Gabriel: saras
Sarasvati: I'm Sarasvati, founder of, well, a webpage *L* that has been down for over a year and is being re-made currently
Sarasvati: No beating, promise! Anyway, I tend to be on the outskirts of the community more then I would like. It leaves me a bit isolated, I realize, so I hope through this and other meetings to get to know the various groups, ideas, thoughts, paths, etc. I tend to get along with everyone... even the trolls seem to like me for some reason *L*
Sarasvati: Umm... I tend to be medical/analytical minded, will admit. The edge place that I have kept has left me really only hearing about some of the sniping and such now... so I hope we can get past what I wasn't previously aware of *L*
Sanguinarius: I hate to, but I gotta leave.....eyestrain's getting too bad Sad
Sanguinarius: Sorry, peoples...*waves and goes to rest her eyes*
Sanguinarius just vanished from the Teleconference!
Kai: I am Raine, founder and head of Bit Nibiru
Kai: I am here under the hope that this may lead to a "UN" of sorts, allowing for civil communication between the people of our community where our different beliefs and practices can be maintained and respected.
Kai: I believe that there is much we can each learn and take away from this experience; if this leads to nothing more than a few hospitalities extended, then it will have been worth the effort.
Kai: With me is my guard, companion, and second in command, Kmerathaetra (Kai) who shares the same mind as I've mentioned more or less.
Kai: As my resources grow, I would like to provide the opportunity for a gathering such as this to take place in person.
Sim: Just for the record, I still own the rights to 'Vampyre Community Alliance, but they're up for grabs if you guys want to use it for this purpose.
Twilight: Sim, that's a nice idea and a good use for it IMO
Sim: I think so, too, Twi. About time it gets used for something, eh?
Craze: *is trying to plan a 2007 meetup in NYC..pendng interest, of course
Vorsuc: Kai - I think that's great, but obviously an online meeting would be more accessible and reach a greater number of people.
Lady Slinky: on a financial and logistical level
Vorsuc: it would however, remove the interruptions.
Kai: in response to transportation and such, that and accomodations would be provided
LadyCG: a noble endeavor, Kai
Gabriel: I'd like to say some things real quick then lets see what everyone else thinks
Gabriel: #1 we have community issues as it is.. things we can actually talk about.. tonight.. #2 Would you guys be in favor of a non biased UN or geneva? where we come together no matter likes and dislikes and speak .. #3 I do not want to host these all the time I like for us to trade off who hosts
Gabriel: What do you guys think about that?
Kai: perhaps we may all share contact information to get in touch after this conference?
Craze: Gabe: I think a non biased body of some form is a good idea, but I'm not sure how realistic it is
LadyCG: I think it's good for us leaders to get to know each other
Gabriel: Tonight is NOT about making us unified.. it's starting something that's it.. an opening to conversations and thoughts
Michelle: First step: get talking.
Craze: People are biased, its human nature, so I'm not sure if a totally Non Biased body is possible.
Kaine: Craze: But a neutral group is possible
Craze: Kaine: Absolutely, I agree.
LadyCG: I agree Michelle
Cammey: non biased I Don't think will happen. There's no such thing as "non-biased"
Sarasvati: #2 - yes #3 understandable...#1 was just a statement, right?
Michelle: I think realistically, we should do these for a while, see how they work, then consider expanding the purpose beyond communication
LadyCG: and we can disagree about things without disliking each other.. we
Khan: I would be happy with just civil, for a start
Cammey: we're biased by who got invited - note not Todd or Toddites
Cammey: now, I think that'll work a lot better, frankly
Cammey: but it's not non-biased
SphynxCatVP: #2 sure, #3 makes sense
Twilight: Sim, I think that would be useful, to have a group people can post their thoughts or ideas to
Sim: That way we Don't all have to meet up at one time.
Twilight: Exactly my thoughts
Kai: civil is quite acceptable
Gabriel: Craze: non biased body being, people with biasm coming together to balance one anothers biasm's
Mairi: The thing is that most if not all the people here can and are civil to each other online and off
Mairi: So you have a good group to start with
LadyCG: it would be nice to have one place to find other group leaders instead of having to post 10 places to reach each person
Michelle: Cammey, others: start with this, expand, invite others as the current group works
Gabriel: Cammey: Todd didn't get invited because he announced his retirement I made sure that was posted... AS well, I figured it wouldn't be good for a first meeting.. if in the future we wish to invite them by all means... right now we need to be civil I thought
Craze: I mean, if we, or community leaders, can't be civil to one another, how can ANYONE expect everyone else to be civil?
Lady Slinky: So how is this not going to be just one more individual group?
Gabriel: Todd and Don being here would cause an uproar and we'd have our focus all over the map
Kai: Contact info should be listed in the log if possible
Cammey: Gabe ~ Not disagreeing, just pointing out.
Michelle: Slinky: good question.
Craze: Kai, yeah that's a good idea
SphynxCatVP: *twitch*
Gabriel: Cammey: yeah I know but I was making the reason known
Michelle: Can we all agree to make this THE ONE -- is that even possible?
Khan: I will
Lady Slinky: The one what though?
LadyCG: if this is a public log I think we should find another way to exchange ier than on here
Cammey: CG ~ Good point.
SphynxCatVP: yea
Craze: Michelle, I think every group starts out as one, small, individual group, and with work, time and interest and PATIENCE, it grows
Lady Slinky: Realisticly what does unity mean for the community?
Sim: <Vampire Alliance Site Deleted> if you need it.
Michelle: For starters, just one collective group of people talking.
Mairi: I will
Gabriel: let's all give it one last chance..
LadyCG: Slinky I think it means a better approach to working together
Gabriel: let's seriously TRY
Kai: perhaps a site could be created for this purpose alone, organization and communications would be much more efficient that way
Michelle: I don't know if we can achieve unity, at least not in the sense of a community of homogenized beliefs & practices.
Michelle: But I think we can achieve communication
Craze: We all want the same thing,it sounds like,
Khan: Isn't that the point, Michelle?
WalkerofShadows: I personally think homegenised beliefs and practices would be Unhealthy for the community
LadyCG: we can learn to be friends. It's a good place to start
Agar: I think all unity is, is communication
Craze: less backbiting/stabbing in the community, and more unity and aid and the like
Lady Slinky: I would like to suggest that one way we try which others have not is to work with each others' strengths instead of making yet another group.
Gabriel: Michelle: we can't.. let's leave religion and beliefs out of it *Smile* let's gather for who we are not for what we believe
Michelle: MY question, having stood in this same space in other times, with other names, is are we ready to really make this work? Are we mature enough as a community now?
Twilight: I'm not confident we'll ever have "unity" in that sense Michelle, but we need to be able to talk about important issues or there's not much point
Craze: Michelle: I think we could be.
Michelle: Gabe: that was my point. Some people think unity means we have to agree.
JayF: do we have the base blocks enough to make it as a community??
LadyCG: we won't know until we try again, Michelle. We as a community have come a long way since COVICA
Lady Slinky: I am not sure unity is what we really want though
Michelle: CG: hells, yes.
Craze: Then those poeple still have some growing up to do, People and groups can be unified without agreeing 100% of the time
Vorsuc: Will we ever be mature enough? we each have an individual choice to either push our own agenda and beliefs or to come together and promote a unified approach and view to help better represent us outside of the community.
Michelle: And to be fair, the spirit of this is more pure.
LadyCG: we Don't have to agree... we just need to get along.. live and let Live
Khan: And be able to agree to disagree
Vorsuc: If we are unable to take a serious, open-minded approach to the community and other members, how can we expect people outside of it to do the same?
Gabriel: Vorsuc: this isn't FOR our agendas... this isn't FOR our fame.. this isn't for money.. in fact if it needs to be laid in stone I'll be the first to do it
LadyCG: people can disagree and still like and even care about each other's well being
Gabriel: it's for OUR future and our children's
Lono: Vorsuc ..it has grown since I've seen it...granted it does go through cycles..
Kai: with moderation set up, those who cannot participate without bias or conflict could be asked to lead [leave?] by a majority vote or something similar
Sarasvati: Will agree here with those saying that unity and agreement are two different things...there is the "agree to disagree" and the mature tactic of getting along while not necessarily agreeing on all points
LadyCG: I agree about for our children.. I have adult kids who are vampyres
Craze: Agrees with Vorsuc, if we can't get along and if we let our community be torn apart by, what is, in all actuality, small disagreements, then how can we ever achieve unity of any form, or even civility?
Vorsuc: Gabe - you are making me teary. Seriously though, I understand people's reservations and you have a choice to either commit 100% to the opportunity and see it fall knowing you gave it your all, or sit in the sidelines waiting to say "I told you so".
JayF: I can relate to the joys of having a mentor from a young age
Gabriel: Sara: and thats the important point
Sim: OK...so we all agree.
LadyCG: I care about a community my kids and grandkids can live with
Sim: What's the next step?
Michelle: Considerations: who gets tapped to participate? How do we judge? Who gets excluded? Why? -- these are considerations raised from past incarnations of this same movement, not thru Gabe, thru others.
Craze: OK, guys, if I Don't get off the computer now, I won't get up for work in the morning...
Twilight: I care about a community that's not an embarassment to be part of
Cammey: Twilight ~ Agreed.
Vorsuc: Twilight - Here, Here.
JayF: I would enjoy to stay forever tonight, but I unfortunately have to be up in the morning
Ravena: well, one good thing about this is that we can put an actual person to what before was just a nickname or name
Gabriel: Vorsuc: Hey, it happens or it doesn't.. we can SAY things here but as we all know as leaders as designers etc... It doesn't stop with I said I did it.. we have to DO it
Craze just vanished from the Teleconference!
Mairi: I've got to go too.......thanks for inviting me Gabe. Talk to you all later
Mairi just vanished from the Teleconference!
Vorsuc: Gabe - so, let us put together an action plan for next meeting. We have a name, a space... what realisitically can we achieve? greater promotion? founding ideals? a list of issues?
JayF just vanished from the Teleconference!
Sarasvati: We must be the change we wish to see... in choosing those to participate, it will be a judgement call, but cannot be a popularity contests... I think we have to again go back to the maturity point to maintain an environment where we can all discuss points
Lono: I agree..in order for something to come together and not all apart the core structure must be sound.
Michelle: Right now, we *almost* have a community, but what we really have are a lot of little communities, not all of whom communicate - which is what's necessary for a community. Where we stand now, we have the opportunity to connect into something less fragmented than we've been before
LadyCG: I think it's a worthy goal, Michelle
Khan: As do I
WalkerofShadows: Less fragmenting would indeed be a good thing
Twilight: Michelle, I agree with that completely, we're far too fragmented as things are right now and that has to be something we address
Gabriel: Vorsuc: The #1 goal is not funding per se, it's us talking about community, it's us putting together community and making it fun again without the torment of who's house/group do you belong to
Lono: true Gabe
LadyCG: I say as far as who to invite.. let's start with the people easiest to deal with and work up to the harder ones, lol
Sarasvati: *nods* That I do see alot of from the outskirts...the fragmentation... there are so many groups I am not aware of simply due to the fragmentation.
Ravena: I don't think anyone needs to be the get along gang to get things accomplished
Lady Slinky: I am not sure everyone is on the same page as to what unity in the community really means.
Michelle: I'm not saying it's not. I'm trying to raise the questions that need to be d & answered if this is really going to work ... this time.
LadyCG: our new alliance is still young
Michelle: CG: agreed.
Vorsuc: I think the fragmentation comes from a difference in approaches though. We each have our "members" who subscribe to different thoughts. Most are aware of other groups and have taken an active decision to be part of one and not another.
Gabriel: we want everyone involved.. we want their ideas and what they have to say
Ravena: I think the key is respect, and of course that is earned not given
Gabriel: but at a pace
Gabriel: or it can fall apart
Vorsuc: We'll never remove that fragmentation, but we can look past the issues that cause it and look to the "bigger picture" and come together on those issues.
Sarasvati: Agreed, Vorsuc
Aarin: so let's start small...with the people in this chat
LadyCG: I think its OK to be different, Vorsuc, and still live and let live
Michelle: Vorsuc: those differences are crucial, though. We need to teach each other, teach ourselves to respect the differences and take strength from our common ground.
Vorsuc: LadyCG - we do *Wink*
Khan: I agree with Aarin
LadyCG: it's a good place to start
Lady Slinky: So what exactly is the goal?
Sim: These are the same arguments we have every time.
LadyCG: the goal is to get to know each other at first, I think
Michelle: Yup
Aarin: get people talking
Sim: And we always say we can get through them.
Sim: So let's actually do it
Michelle: So, we're talking. Now what?
Kai: we need order above all else for now
Khan: A place for communication between different entities
Gabriel: Lady Slinky: right now... to make a house of cards on the cold cement ground :p
Sim: And stop becoming a mockery.
Agar: We're talking. We keep talking..., and we keep the communication, to start the foundation of everything.
Gabriel: Sim: agreed
Sim: I'm offering a truce from my end on behalf of my group of oddballs.
Vorsuc: Michelle - only if we make vampirism ABOUT those differences. If a certain spiritual or mental approach is key to vampirism, you effectively make it about that sole approach and others who Don't follow it "aren't our kind of vampires".
Gabriel: Sim: as well as I
Ravena: would it be appropriate to form some kind of way to communicate outside of meetings?
Cammey: Ravena ~ I think that's a good idea.
LadyCG: I'd like that Ravena
Cammey: Sim ~ agreed on the "stop becoming a mockery"
Lono: lol Sim
Michelle: Here are things that should concern our community: internally, how do we get along with one another, are we a healthy place for people to grow?
Sarasvati: *suddenly realizes the time* Eep, have to run...Wolf will be home soon and dinner is needed heated *Razz*
Sim: We talk more often.
Sim: We learn that sarcasm is just that.
Michelle: Externally: media portrayals. They know we're here. They want to see. What do we show them? How do we control/choose what is shown?
Sim: We learn, too, that every opinion matters.
Sim: Night Saras.
Ravena: because so far, most of you are still just a name, since what was stated I already knew
Ravena: a person with the name would be nice
Gabriel: Michelle: it's gonna take a bit for us to be that healthy place.. let's all take it slow.. and move covering our every steps to make sure we do it right.. seriously.. we have a chance to NOT ***** up.. Smile let's not ***** up
Lady Slinky: looks like a lot of different pages to me.
LadyCG: We Don't have to have all the answers to all the questions about how to proceed tonight. We can work it out as we go
Sarasvati just vanished from the Teleconference!
Michelle: Ravena: I think that's probably very important to us getting along.
Michelle: Consider: many of us run websites, groups, etc., For those who Don't know us as people, what are we? We're icons of our groups.
Vorsuc: Michelle - control is dangerous. We know they'll only speak to a handful of people and they may or may not be representative of the community, feedback from A&E's documentary showed that. The alternative as you suggest is dictating to people what they...can and can't say.
Michelle: Many people only see us as the representation of the opinions and beliefs put forth in our groups, not as people who have lives, jobs, sense of humor.
Gabriel: question: do we really want a website in this?
Sim: No.
Cammey: Vorsuc ~ it's more about drowning out the bullshit with something worth hearing
Vorsuc: While I'm all for not having "raving lunatics" being mistaken as indicative of the community, I Don't like the idea of "control" and more.
Sim: Just an area we can get together on.
Ravena: yes, I agree Michelle.. I mean thus far, you're that Michelle who runs House Kheperu and wrote that book, that's about as much as I know
Gabriel: or are we a bunch of websites and house founders coming together to speak
Sim: A site in the future.
Gabriel: how far do we want to take it?
SphynxCatVP: there's a ton of sites already
Cammey: much as the pagans/wiccans drown out their loonies with the people who know what they're talking about.
Ravena: that was just one example of course
Sim: Once we know where we stand.
Michelle: With the media, we can't always control who they talk to.
Vorsuc: Cammey - Exactly. If we can have a vocal group of "sane" vampires, the fringe will be seen as exactly that.
Gabriel: Sphynx: I agree
WalkerofShadows: I would agree with Sim, keep a site out of it for now. Just have a place for people to talk.
Michelle: They talk to who's visible, who's available, who fits the "image" they want to portray.
Michelle: So we use that.
Lady Slinky: I would like to see a place where the currently existing resources are brought together.
Lono: true Michelle...I think I know it better than most here
Cammey: Vorsuc ~ frankly, we can't control what nutballs say anyway, but we can point the media to good people to talk to
Twilight: I think a yahoo group would be much more productive to start, and Sim has already offered that
LadyCG: I thought we did pretty well on the Documentary
Michelle: I'm one of the people the media uses as a resource. So tell me what you want.
Michelle: CG too
Vorsuc: Michelle - I Don't wish to sound rude, but I Don't think using you as a platform will work. You have a deep and visible spiritual nature, one highly specific to HK.
Lady Slinky: I hate yahoo but if someone is offering up a site we can whip up something without too much trouble that will work much better then yahoo
Michelle: Here's my thing: I get asked by people to describe the community. I know HK, but I Don't know everyone else here, unless there's communication.
Michelle: I'm more than willing to at least make an attempt to present everyone in an equal light.
LadyCG: you know Michelle.. that is why I joined HK's forums...
LadyCG: I'm Sang.. I NEED to know more about you and yours
Vorsuc: Michelle - but should the onus be on the community to talk to YOU, when you discuss it in the media?
Agar: Alright, here's an idea, we create a permanent place to chat like this.
Michelle: The way I see it, our spiritual beliefs are how we interpret our vampirism on a personal level.
Michelle: The vampirism is something we all share on a group level.
Michelle: A lot of our bickering arises from confusing the personal stuff,
Twilight: Well, we can all go around joining everyone else's forums and belong to too many to keep straight, or we can have one place to at least TRY to generate some common ground
Vorsuc: I wouldn't expect someone discussing the gay community in the media, when corrected to comment "well gays didn't approach me and tell me what to say".
Gabriel: ok ok, hold up guys were going a little off topic.. this isn't bash Michelle night... what the hell? we're starting a ground here... the rest of the questions that you can ask to Michelle will come later
Gabriel: to prove your opinions or ask her in person
Sim: Nice point, Twilight.
Ravena: all of that is manipulated anyway - it'd be nice to know the real person, not their PR info sheet, was part of my point
Cammey: Vorsuc ~ Regardless of personal takes on things, Michelle's got the contacts - that's the starting point, like it or not. Lady CG is probably the only other person with that background
LadyCG: I like the one place, Idea, though I already belong to many or most of the groups represented here, lol
Cammey: Though I do agree perhaps it's best to all get educated on each other's views
Michelle: Vorsuc: I would hope that anyone here, if approached by the media, would do his or her honest best to present everyone fairly.
Gabriel: what I'm saying is.. this isnt about Michelle
Gabriel: it's about all of us.. SHE has been on A&E so has CG, and.. who cares?
Michelle: It should be about the community.
LadyCG: to me it's ALL about community...
Gabriel: if she can take the time to be here and go "I want everyone's opinions cause I haven't had them before" -a Then that shows something
LadyCG: if I may say so.. I Don't know if any of you heard about a boy's life being saved this week
LadyCG: it took 3 communities working together to do it
LadyCG: but we did
Gabriel is nodding his head affirmatively.
Michelle: So let's forget the external issues for a moment. Let's focus internally.
Twilight: Yes, it should, and we need a place to talk about things that affect ALL of the community, not just the more visible members and/or houses
Gabriel: Vorsuc: later when we get to a ground where were stable.. raise it again *Smile*
LadyCG: my point is THAT is what community is about.. working together to help
Vorsuc: Gabe - that's at the bottom of a VERY long list *Wink*
WalkerofShadows: *agrees with LadyCG*
Michelle: ::nods::
Gabriel: Vorsuc: we're never stable :p but you know what I mean.. when we've actually DONE things and seriously made an attempt
Cammey: though I'm not sure it can be solved right now. I know people may object
Cammey: but do you think an email list is a good idea?
Cammey: it prevents one person from having to play courrier to everyone else
LadyCG: if we can work together in an emergency.. and we all know we can and will... why not all the time, or at least most of it?
Michelle: So a place to meet and talk some more?
Gabriel: May I ask a question
Gabriel: *waits*
Ravena: not sure there's another way to communicate besides some kind of list
Gabriel: There was a hurricane in Lousiana not to long ago.. im sure you've heard about it
Gabriel: There was a house affected by it.. "house saint germain" ... How many of us knew they were having that problem.. how many of us helped... these are the things I'm talking about.. we need to be closer
Gabriel: New York
Gabriel: 911
Gabriel: etc.
Gabriel: WE NEED to get this shit figured out
Gabriel: it's our duty
Gabriel: to ourselves
Michelle: Why not schedule chats like this once a month?
LadyCG: and those who CAN attend do...
Kai: this format is too unstructured to communicate properly
Michelle: Scheduling's a *****, I know, but those who want to really try, show up. We post the logs where *everyone* can see -- each of us on our own sites, for example.
LadyCG: we might not always make it to chat all the time, but those who do can still talk
SphynxCatVP: *agrees with Kai*
Cammey: Regular meetings I think are necessary, be it monthly, quarterly, etc.
Vorsuc: Quarterly?
Vorsuc: with informal monthly meetings?
Gabriel: who's hosting the next one? Sim?
Sim: Yeah.
Sim: Get me a list.
Ravena: still doesn't address the issue of how some of us Don't know each other, etc. hard to do in this forum
Cammey: Ravena ~ we should also exchange contact info
Cammey: and talk privately, it's how we'll actually get to know each other
Cammey: and each other's beliefs
Ravena: yes, one could talk privately.. not on here I Don't think, but via email and other things
Kai: with a site/forum as Sim would set up, it allows us to talk at our convenience, and set up a personal profile
Cammey: vote... that sounds like a good plan. Quarterly business meetings and monthly social meetings?
Khan: Yea
Aarin: sure
Lady Slinky: Sure
Sim: good enough for me
Michelle: So a forum site, plus monthly informals, quarterly formal chats
LadyCG: I like it
Cammey: yes.
Khan: Agreed
Lono: agreed
Lady Slinky: I am willing to give it a try but frankly guys the number of these independent unity meetings is building up.
Vorsuc: how about .... Action plan is we each get assigned a "relationship" with an objective to partner and exchange contact info and information with another group.
Vorsuc: We spend the time until next meeting learning about that group, their agenda, who they are what they do.
Vorsuc: Foster relationships between groups.
Ravena: well, I think it would be difficult to know someone's objectives if they are a stranger to us, furthermore, one of my goals was to stop the ridiculous sniping etc.. for me a way to combat this is for a person not just to be a name
Kai: agreed
Michelle: Slinky: so we reach out to the others, integrate them?
Gabriel: ok I'm gonna ask this
Gabriel: Can one of you set up these things I'm taking a vacation after Feb.. trying to get my personal life back together :p
Vorsuc: Gabe - pass me the info. I'll sort it.
Gabriel: ok
Vorsuc: Sound reasonable to everyone? Objective is that you'll be assigned a group to become familiar with and be on reasonable contact terms with for next time? if we continue it we'll know each other reasonably well pretty quickly.
Ravena: I Don't mean life stories and buddy buddy stuff, private people can still be private.. anyway, just include everyone's contact info with the log, if they give permission and we can go from there perhaps?
Cammey: Vorsuc ~ personally, I think it's a good plan.
Michelle: Gabe, you've got the mod hat. Assign people to people.
Lady Slinky: Sure
Cammey: also, I think we should make a private list of contact info
Cammey: and give it to Gabe
Cammey: who can give it to each person here, along with the log.
Cammey: that keeps our private contact off the internet, but to each other.
Gabriel: ok works for me
SphynxCatVP: Vorsuc > Sounds reasonable Smile
WalkerofShadows: Good idea Cammey
Gabriel: Now can I calm everyone down for a second .. we all agreed to give this a try yes?
LadyCG: yes
Sim: yes
Kaine: Yes
Gabriel: I have a point to bring up as our first action
Michelle: Yup
Khan: yes
WalkerofShadows: listens to Gabe
Cammey: yes
Lady Slinky: yes
Gabriel: it's something that some of you asked me to bring up here
Gabriel: Jonathan Sharkey, as a community
Gabriel: Vorsuc is having an interview with him tomorrow
Sim: I say we just denounce his involvement.
Sim: He's making himself a big joke.
Lady Slinky: it will have to be addressed sooner or later
LadyCG: **face / palms
Michelle: Do we all agree on that?
Sim: AYE
Michelle: I'd like to state to the media that the only member of the community he represents is himself.
Vorsuc: Sim - that was my angle. I'd asked a number of groups to prepare a public release to that effect.
Khan: I agree he doesn't represent the community as a whole
Gabriel: let's also note: Sharkey May win it
Twilight: He's a raving nutball as far as I'm concerned, if we allow him to claim to be speaking for all of us we're asking for a lot of trouble
Sim: He doesn't represent anyone but himself.
LadyCG: Michelle I agree he only reps himself
Lono: I agree
Gabriel: can we give Vorsuc a public release people?
Cammey: Gabe ~ it's too early. He's the most known name, the polls are biased because of that, fortunately.
Ravena: knowing what I do about politics, I highly doubt he will win
Agar: not only for us, but every pagan and fruitcake out there
Gabriel: after his interview let's read over it and make a comment?
Sim: Sure. We, as a whole Community, denounce the idiot, Sharkey. <end statement>
Michelle: I do not want vamp=Satanist in the popular eye because of him
Vorsuc: comment ? er... hang on .... *Wink*
Twilight: Vorsuc already has a blurb I wrote for release to the media, I encourage everyone to do the same
Gabriel: Twilight: as well as I have
Ravena: I think though that this needs to be handled with care so the point is known but it's not a sniping, backbiting fest
Sim: You just read mine. lol
Khan: I will post one on my site, as well
Gabriel: im just asking if we can look at Vorsuc's interview with him and anyone who hasn't give him a comment on the community's behalf.. we know how we feel about him
Michelle: This is completely serious from me, and I want honest opinions. I've been holding off contacting my publicist and media contacts about him.
Gabriel: yeah, let's make it political if possible
Michelle: I didn't want to look like I was using him to grab attention
LadyCG: while I am supportive of whatever my American vamp counterparts decide.. I Don't really have an opinion of him.. to me he is just another colorful American Polititian
Lady Slinky: I think that the first to step out are always a bit out there.
Khan: I say he doesn't represent us.
Twilight: Michelle, you're in a unique position to be able to get some media involvement here, what do you really think and how would you address it?
Michelle: But I think something needs to be said publically to counteract the PR job he's doing for the community - - negative PR that is.
Sim: Don't do it, Michelle.
Vorsuc: Khan - which is effectively the release that will go out.
Gabriel: I'm not asking for a comment tonight FYI
Ravena: he represents only himself
Sim: Reason being...
Sim: You'll give HIM more press.
Sim: And that's not what he needs.
WalkerofShadows: I would agree Michelle, I'm Canadian as well, but he gives All of us a bad image
Michelle: I've waffled. I'm afraid making a big deal about it will give him more attention
Sim: He needs to be swept under the carpet.
Lady Slinky: I think we should handle this by going to him, Don't you?
Cammey: Sim ~ That was my argument, weeks ago
Vorsuc: Sim - he has press, lots, it made reuters and most of the major news feeders.
Twilight: But not saying anything gives the impression we concur
Michelle: But at the same time, I probably stand the best chance of making a statement a lot of people will ge to hear.
Sim: But Michelle's getting involved would bring BIGGER press.
Lono: now you're absolutely right to be waffled, Michelle
Lady Slinky: wouldn't things be where we should try to understand him?
Vorsuc: There have been a number of followups and I'd like to hijack that interest and make sure it is clear he "doesn't represent all of us"
Sim: 'a noted vampire leader has spoken with Sharkey...'
Gabriel: lady: already have, and I asked him if he'd agree to an interview by the community which is when I handed him to Vorsuc
Michelle: Well, I'd want to wait till Vorsuc talks to him tomorrow.
Michelle: He's my worst case scenario, PR wise. He's what I was afraid Don Henrie would be.
Lady Slinky: indeed
Cammey: Vorsuc ~ I look forward to reading that interview by the way.
Michelle: Sim: yeah. There's my quandary.
Lady Slinky: and Don Henrie wasn't?
Sim: Understandably so.
Ravena: I Don't know Don personally, but compared to this guy, Don is a disney character
Cammey: Michelle ~ he's worse then Don, even when Don was out there.
Khan: I'll wait to make a comment until after the interview
Sim: Don has intelligence to back him up.
Gabriel: let's not go into Don thats like a Todd topic
Ravena: I mean, in terms of what they do to the rep of the community overall
Michelle: He's not this bad.
Lono: yeah from what I've seen of Sharkey he could do some real damage
From Lady Slinky: I am not saying Don is bad
Agar: I Don't think he'll last. His own satanic church is a laughing stock, not to mention the site already down and 403
Twilight: Don's still out there, but Sharkey makes Don look good by comparison
Lady Slinky: I am just not sure how much different Sharkey is
Cammey: Slinky ~ check his website
Gabriel: Twilight: agreed
Sim: Ok...
Sim: On that note...
Sim: The Yahoo Group sits there, if you want it.
Michelle: It's something I love about this community -- we're a heck of a lot of individuals, all very vocal.
Michelle: But the media only gets a voice here, a voice there.
Michelle: In cases when that voice severely misrepresents us, something should be done.
Khan: I say we reserve comment until we can see the interview, and reconvene then
Sim: So I'm out of here.
Gabriel: listen, let's just make the arrangement of, will we give Vorsuc our comments when time comes?
Cammey: I would say an in-community posting on the subject is good though
Vorsuc: Michelle - I agree, if only that the "vampire alliance" or whoever makes a formal statement.
Michelle: Yes.
Gabriel: (btw, we need to do this on IRC next time or SOMETHING so I can see what's already typed) lol
Cammey: just to stop the vlad wanna-bes from coming into the community and saying "I wanna be like the impaler!"
Cammey: at the least.
Sim just vanished from the Teleconference!
Lono: has there been alot of the underworld fallout in chan and on the forums lately?
Cammey: Lono ~ there always is, it's just flavor-of-the-week
LadyCG: not in mine, Lono
Lady Slinky: nore mine
Cammey: though thankfully not vlad fallout
Michelle: So what do people need from us before we go?
Twilight: All, I have to head out myself, but I'm really glad the Sharkey thing is being addressed and I look forward to the log and future meetings
Gabriel: Michelle: I got all the information, I'll send it to their respective places.. we're gonna have another meeting in figuring this out
Michelle: Seriously, let me know the consensus of what to do/say about Sharkey.
Gabriel: but as far as everything were agreed to attempt a unity at a slow pace and communications thus far in (right all?)
Michelle: I'll sit on it if everyone wants.
Khan: I agree
WalkerofShadows: *nods to Gabe*
Gabriel: Michelle: I'd wait till Vorsuc has the interview then make an actual personal statement
Cammey: *nods*
Michelle: Or I'll start an aggressive campaign of contacting the media to make a statement.
Michelle: Absolutely, Gabe
Michelle: Lot of work, but I'm willing to do it if people think it's important enough
Gabriel: I'd like to end the meeting in 5 mins.. it's going to the 2 hour mark, if that's ok with all
Lono: I like irc...when you can get people to stop screwing around and be serious for a change.."did I just say that?"
Cammey: Vorsuc~ you should ask him his views on normal people,
LadyCG: Michelle, Josh is already aware of my opinion of Sharkey.. we had reason to be in contact recently
Vorsuc: Cammey - will do. I Don't think we'll like the answer though.
Twilight just vanished from the Teleconference!
Michelle: I've been holding off contacting the good folks at NBCUniversal
Lady Slinky just vanished from the Teleconference!
Lono: I have the number to CBS New York...and virtually every producer...
Vorsuc: Michelle - you can make a personal statement or use your contacts to help create a wider audience for a joint statement. There will be a number of names on it though.
Michelle: As there should be.
Agar: the bigger the better
Cammey: if people Don't want Michelle being the only media voice then we should look into who's willing to put their face on camera, shines up nice, etc.
Cammey: eventually.
Cammey: It's a huge thing to commit to.
Michelle: Lady CG did a good job. ::pokes::
WalkerofShadows: I think Known individuals need to be seen first
Cammey: Michelle ~ agreed wholeheartedly.
Michelle: Living your life under glass? Yeah...
Kai: I'm willing to show my face, and living in NYC makes it more convenient
Michelle: Well, anyone wants to step up, give me contact info.
Michelle: I got Raven of House Eclipse on the A&E special
Khan: I agree with Michelle and Cammey. Lady CG did a wonderful job before.
Michelle: They ask me to recommend people.
Cammey: Michelle ~ face blacked out, doesn't count, frankly
Cammey: I respect Raven as a person, but you need to be both willing to do that, and have a respectable profile
Michelle: Still, it was something that a sang needed to say.
Michelle: It's tough.
Cammey: Michelle ~ Agreed.
LadyCG: I'd be happy to help out if someone tells me what needs doing.
Agar: I don't mind stepping up for something if need be
Gabriel: ok let's wrap it up... if people wanna give comments about Sharkey, find Vorsuc. if you need his info send to me, I'll forward.. Sim is hosting the next meeting, and we get a buddy system (like that?) so let's hope this works out. strive for unity. thank you all for coming
Vorsuc: Y'all take care and look forward to seeing more of you next meeting. Gabe I'll hit you tomorrow about followup for sorting out these "relationships".
Gabriel: Aki cut log everyone speak freely